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Thread: A Venice Divine Wind 5.1 AAR

  1. #281
    Colonel Memento Mori's Avatar
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    Well, I guess some archangel appeared and told them to convert. This is the only reasonable explenation...

    The thing that irritates me a lot is that there is no mechanism which makes Muslims around the world royally pissed off once somebody takes their holy city. It would be fun if, like, 80% of them declared war stimultainiously with "reconquest of Mecca" cb. Other then that, how do you make the missions love you so much? Yes, I know that having 2 integrate missions in a row is worse then a integrate-vassalise-integrate chain, but still...

  2. #282
    Colonel vasziljevics's Avatar
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    hm... that's ridiculous indeed... my idea that just came to my mind would be a new factor in religious conversions, something that measures how 'embedded' the actual religion is - for example by the 1500 Muslim faith would have nearly 900 years of that in Mecca while Catholicism would have only 200-300 years in regions like the Baltic. so converting the latter to a whole new faith should be easier. also there should be differences between converting to a 'heretic' belief and converting to an entirely new religion (Sunni-Shiite vs. Sunni-Catholic in this case). but that's just my idea.

    anyway, do you plan to claim all of the New World for Venice or dividing it into spheres of countries would be enough?

  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by Memento Mori View Post
    Well, I guess some archangel appeared and told them to convert. This is the only reasonable explenation...

    The thing that irritates me a lot is that there is no mechanism which makes Muslims around the world royally pissed off once somebody takes their holy city. It would be fun if, like, 80% of them declared war stimultainiously with "reconquest of Mecca" cb. Other then that, how do you make the missions love you so much? Yes, I know that having 2 integrate missions in a row is worse then a integrate-vassalise-integrate chain, but still...
    I like the idea, taking and converting the Mecca seemed too easy

    What should I say about missions ? This is what helped me get some good missions, I think.

    - Low infamy all the time. Which means I have good relationships with most countries and I seldom get the missions "Improve relations with X". Not sure if you are likelier to get good missions if your infamy is low.
    - Big land army and navy. No missions "Naval Race" and "Army Race"
    - Focus on missions. The more missions you accomplish, the likelier it is to get a good one. Kind of obvious.
    - Having a long border. Bordering many small countries. Being in a fragmented region.
    - And most important of all, creating the conditions for this kind of missions. I made Austria release Styria and Tirol, the Papal state release Urbino and Siena, Milan release Pisa, Bavaria release Augsburg. I got missions on all these small countries.
    - No point in canceling a mission. You will get the same mission over and over.

  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by vasziljevics View Post
    hm... that's ridiculous indeed... my idea that just came to my mind would be a new factor in religious conversions, something that measures how 'embedded' the actual religion is - for example by the 1500 Muslim faith would have nearly 900 years of that in Mecca while Catholicism would have only 200-300 years in regions like the Baltic. so converting the latter to a whole new faith should be easier. also there should be differences between converting to a 'heretic' belief and converting to an entirely new religion (Sunni-Shiite vs. Sunni-Catholic in this case). but that's just my idea.

    anyway, do you plan to claim all of the New World for Venice or dividing it into spheres of countries would be enough?
    Yeah I don't think there is an easy solution for this. Several approaches have been tried. Making entrenched religions harder to dislodge is a good idea, but there are religions which are much harder to dislodge than others. The Incas have all been converted in a generation, while I don't know of any province in history who has been converted peacefully from Muslim to Christian. I mean, without kicking them out, like the Moriscos in Spain.

    - In EU2 I think you can only convert provinces who have low population
    - In Magna Mundi conversions are much harder
    - In Vicky 2 you have Pops. It models the world better, you have several religions in a province. But it is much harder to understand and follow.

    Anyway, Spain has a lot of provinces in Africa and I even helped them there. I consider all of America Venice's sphere of influence. But that will be decided on the battlefield. The only provinces I will leave alone are the cities who will not border Venice's colonies in America ever, like Trinidad for instance.

  5. #285

    1521-1526 : Colonial growth and Imperial Integrity

    Gold is still waiting for us in Zimbabwe. War is declared on the Musape in March 1521.

    And on the Chimu and the Inca as well.
    Zimbabwe is annexed in June 1521.

    Chanchan is annexed in October 1521.

    And we get one province more from the Incas, Arequipa.

    So this is the situation in South America in November 1521. Portugal has founded another colony, Antioquia.

    We keep converting the heathen provinces. We always have enough missionaries. Meanwhile Protestantism keeps spreading in Europe.
    In November 1522, we connect our COT in Mohawk to the coast in North America, thanks to the founding of Mahican.

    Our doge dies and we elect a new one. I choose a diplomatic one. There is diplomatic work to do.

    Land Tech 16 is researched. We found a new colony in North America, Massachussets. Since we have a core on Loango, we can also claim Cape. A colony is founded there too.

    In November 1523, I can choose a new National Idea. I choose "Land of Opportunity" : 33% Global Colonial Growth more. My other NIs are Press Gangs, National Bank and Quest for the New World.

    In December 1523, I find out that our economy is more than twice bigger than Spain's.

    I am not afraid of taking on Spain 1-on-1, but there are other countries who might intervene. There are three more things that I want to do before war is declared : join the HRE, improve relations with Great Britain and annex Pisa, which will be possible in August 1526. Our relations with Austria, the current Emperor, have improved lately. We are both Catholic, although Austria's capital is now Protestant.

    Our relations with Great Britain are improved as well. They have military access and should not declare war out of the blue. And we still have trade rights on their iron, which we bought like - 70 years ago ?

    Meanwhile the colony in Cape has been founded, but colonization in Little Karoo fails even if it was 99% likely.

    In September 1524, the Holy Roman Emperor accepts our request to join the Empire. Will I regret that ? If I had to annex a country like Croatia now I might not be able to keep all of the provinces...

    But the bonus is very good and cannot be ignored. Imperial Integrity. Actually, I should have joined the Empire before.

    We got called to arms from the Iroquois against the Huron. In February 1526, Nav Technology 16 is researched.

    A new colony is founded in Sayultecas, in Mexico, who has a very high tax base.

    And we strike gold in Cape ! Little Karoo, meanhwhile, has been succesfully colonized.

    A new colony is founded in North America as well, Lenape.

  6. #286
    Colonel vasziljevics's Avatar
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    meh... if in need of it you can leave the HRE anytime

    on the former topic: yeah, the Vicky-system of pops is probably the best (out of the ones that have been tried yet) but it complicates the game to a scale which could be rejected by a large part of EU players. anyway it was just an idea.

  7. #287

    1526-1529 : Pisa annexed.

    Our ally Syria is having some trouble. He is at war with several Muslim countries

    We give them war subsidies, we need to be at peace to annex Pisa.

    But of course, Syria calls us to arms soon.

    As soon as we enter the war, we are offered white peace. In August 1526, we white peace the Mameluks.

    Peace is made with Benin as well. In March 1527, we are all at peace and we can annex Pisa.

    Our next mission will be colonize Timucua.

    Meanwhile, we get a core on an Inca province, Tumbes.

    Spain has founded another colony in North America, Pamlico, and has sent a colonist to Santee.

    In October 1527, a colony is founded in Timucua.

    Next mission will be turn Mahican into a city.

    Of course, we need to get back to stability 1 as well. Netherlands for some reason expanded in Eastern Europe and is snaking into the Golden Horde territory.

    Spain keeps expanding in South America as well. There are quite a few colonies we could grab now. Havana has already turned into a city so it is about time we declare war on Spain.

    They have the same land and naval technology as Venice : 16. They are at war with the Golden Horde and have some War Exhaustion. We infiltrate Spain's administration.

    In January 1529, War is declared on Spain using the Colonialism casus belli. Allies will be called to arms manually, since not all of them can join (e.g. Syria).

    Here are the diplomatic maps right after the declaration of war.


  8. #288
    Colonel vasziljevics's Avatar
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    ok - the Netherlands is a country which I haven't seen yet conquering the GH but in EU3 all things has to come sooner or later... wow!

    now let's see what the Spaniards have...

  9. #289
    Field Marshal Malurous's Avatar
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    Whee, major conflict coming up! Certainly looks interesting in the New World.

    DIP 9, ADM 8? That's one heck of a Doge.

    Quote Originally Posted by vasziljevics View Post
    ok - the Netherlands is a country which I haven't seen yet conquering the GH but in EU3 all things has to come sooner or later... wow!
    This! Hopefully they'll win the race to the steppes, would be awesome.
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  10. #290
    Colonel Memento Mori's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malurous View Post
    This! Hopefully they'll win the race to the steppes, would be awesome.
    Yeath... but I am worried too. Imagine the quantities of cannabis they will start to grow, if given the access to the steppes

  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by Memento Mori View Post
    Yeath... but I am worried too. Imagine the quantities of cannabis they will start to grow, if given the access to the steppes
    As far as I know, hemp was common all over Europe in the EU timeframe...

  12. #292

    1529 : War with Spain (1)

    Spain is present also in the Middle East. One more reason to attack them, the Eastern Mediterranean is definitely Venice's sphere of influence.

    The first engagements are obviously naval. We ambush a fleet in the Straits of Gibraltar.

    There are no Spanish troops in North America and it is easy to grab their colonies.

    Major naval engagements are fought in the Mediterranean. We called most of our vassals to arms by now. The ones who have a fleet.

    Havana is occupied as well, but regrettably cannot be seized because it is a city - with no fort though.

    By middle of February 1529, a first batch of Spanish colonies in North America has been seized.

    But we get surprised in Judea by a major Spanish stack. We have to retreat to Syria.

    The Byzantines are taking care of Spanish possessions in Turkey.

    On the 21th of February 1529, in a surprising turn of events, Austria declares war on us.They cite "Imperial Liberation" as their casus belli ! I guess they never forgave us that we took several provinces out of the HRE. I thought I had covered my back there. This is actually the scenario I feared.

    They take a bunch of countries into the war as well. So Venice is now at war with Spain, Portugal, Austria, Bavaria, Savoy, Dauphine and Bosnia. Isn't that great ?

    Difficult times call for extreme measures. A loan has to be taken. There are virtually no Venetian troops in Italy and the vassals cannot match the enemys' stacks.

    The naval war with Spain seems to turn bad as well. We lose a major engagement in the Meditarranean sea.

    But Spain has no troops on the Mainland and Naples and Sicily are invading it ! That is going to put some serious pressure on them.

    The situation in Italy is getting very dangerous. Austria has two major stacks and is assaulting Krain, while Bavary is invading Tirol with a big stack. To add insult to injury, the vassals Augsburg and Styria are not allied with Venice any longer - they cancelled their alliance after going Protestant and it takes some time before it is restored and they are called to arms as well.

    One of our major problems is that we don't have generals - apart from our doge. We have a pretty low military tradition, around 30%. We brought reinforcements to Judea but it looks like we will be defeated there.

    Savoy also joins the fray and sends a major stack to Milan. We have no answer to that.

    When I thought think things could not get worse, I spot a big Dauphine stack heading to Milan as well.

    At least in America things are going well. We are grabbing colonies in South America....

    In North America....

    And we achieved naval superiority.

  13. #293
    Pretty much what i feared did happen, more planning in terms of HRE provinces would have been helpful before joining, although i will say the bonus is kickass. Its always good to dismantle the spanish colonies, they totally ruined my attempt at a complete americas empire. If all else fails, i always found that the AI rarely completely occupies you in the pennisula, and leaves about half of my provinces alone, so you might benefit from that.

  14. #294
    Austria always gets in the way ,isn't it ?

    This look good enough on the Americas, and even the situation in Spain is quite good. Italy, on the other hand, is in dire straits :/ I guess it is time to get what you can from the Spanish war and focus on driving the Emperor back to his lair, since Italy is your power base and all those armies around are not doing it any good . Too bad you can't be the Emperor yourself ... this would be easily averted if you could.

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by Poulern View Post
    Pretty much what i feared did happen, more planning in terms of HRE provinces would have been helpful before joining, although i will say the bonus is kickass. Its always good to dismantle the spanish colonies, they totally ruined my attempt at a complete americas empire. If all else fails, i always found that the AI rarely completely occupies you in the pennisula, and leaves about half of my provinces alone, so you might benefit from that.
    I didn't know about this game mechanics, I thought that being in the Empire would make the Emperor LESS likely to declare war on you. You live and learn.

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardo Rolo View Post
    Austria always gets in the way ,isn't it ?

    This look good enough on the Americas, and even the situation in Spain is quite good. Italy, on the other hand, is in dire straits :/ I guess it is time to get what you can from the Spanish war and focus on driving the Emperor back to his lair, since Italy is your power base and all those armies around are not doing it any good . Too bad you can't be the Emperor yourself ... this would be easily averted if you could.
    This is exactly my plan right now. I have to be a republic, that is a house rule, so I cannot be the Emperor of course

  17. #297

    1529 : War with Spain (2)

    For reasons I don't know, Bavaria offers us a white peace. I am happy to accept it, since this takes more than 20k troops out of the war.

    As expected, the troops in Judea are defeated and retreat to Syria. Luckily the Spanish cannot follow us there.

    In Morocco a Venetian and Spanish stack are about to meet. We are more than them, but they have a general while we don't. I am taking attrition in Ifni, this is why I am eager to meet them.

    The naval war seems to turn back to our favour and we win two major engagements in the Mediterranean sea.

    Spain has no answer to the invasion by Sicily and Naples. This might win the war for us.

    By the end of April 1529, Milan falls and Liguria is under siege as well.

    In May, we win another major naval engagement in Cape Bon.

    But devastating news comes from Rio de Oro. Our Army of Morocco has been soundly defeated. That puts a even bigger drain on our depleted manpower. I guess I have shown you how not to do it, their great general made a big difference. I should have avoided engagement and let the Spanish take attrition in Ifni / Sus.

    It is a very little consolation that Bosnian troops are defeated in Zeta.

    In America, we have moved to the next phase of "colony seizing" and we are about to grab the Spanish colonies in Colombia and Central America.

    By the end of June 1526, Spain offers us a white peace, just as they are about to wipe out our Army of Morocco. But they want out of this war as well, they have high War Exhaustion and risks of revolt even on the Mainland, Spain is being invaded and they are about to lose all of their colonies.

    We accept, even if that means we are not achieving all of our war goals. But Italy is being invaded and that needs to be taken care of. We are now at war with Austria, Savoy, Dauphine and Bosnia. We should be able to handle that.
    Our freshly recruited regiments, joined by the troops we withdrew from Africa, meet the Dauphine stack who has ventured too deep into Italy. The Austrian and Savoy stacks remain unchallenged in Slovenia and Liguria. The smaller Austrian stack in Krain has been wiped out by our vassals after they foolishly tried assaulting the fort.

    A much needed victory is achieved.

    Of course our vassals will bring the war to their countries as well. A small Byzantium stack lands in Dauphine. All of Austria is already under siege.

    Bosnia and Dauphine offer a white peace. We accept Bosnia's offer, but not Dauphine's. The tide is turning and we will make them pay for attacking us when they thought we were weak.

    Dauphine's stack is wiped out in Görz.

    In September 1529 we can move a slider and we go Mercantilism - we will found the East India Company sooner or later.

    I challenge the Austrian stack in Slavonia hoping that my vassals will come and join the fight - but they don't. They just walk around it.

    My bigger stack, who got other reinforcements from overseas, is tackling Savoy's stack in Liguria.

    Without help, though, our outnumbered troops have to retreat from Slavonia.
    Last edited by diegoami; 26-04-2012 at 23:41.

  18. #298

    1529-1531 : War with Austria

    But in Liguria we win and Savoy's stack is not going to survive this.

    Their stack is wiped out in Nice, while Dauphine is begging for a peace they are not going to get. The road to the invasion of Savoy and Dauphine is open.


    While our main stack is tackling the Austrian stack another time and this time we are going to win the battle. Our vassals have invaded Austria as well.

    We win, but not as decisively as I hoped. Our losses hurt and we are now very low on manpower.

    In April 1530, our war score with Savoy is high enough to make them release Sardinia and their colony Hausa.

    In Osjek we win another major costly battle. I really need better generals.

    The war is pretty much decided, so we start another one, against the Inca.

    Which is immediately over after the occupation of Tumbes, which is a Venice core.

    In Bosnia, who conveniently gave us military access, the Austrian stack is routed. Our losses are horrific, though. Austria is very tough.

    During the war with Spain, we didn't notice they have a colony south of Loango. In our rage we declare war on Kongo.

    Dauphine is soundly defeated.

    We make them release Provence.

    It is Austria who has to be punished. They have to cede Graz, even if we have no core on them and will be unlawful.

    But Styria suddenly gets a core on it. I am sure it was not there last time I checked. That is very convenient, Graz will be sold to Styria.

    After this war, which cost us so many brave men, our manpower is depleted but our economy is booming. Spain's economy has been damaged, but they are still strong. The newly acquired colonies will have to be assimilated in our culture, which will cost us some colonists.

    Venice's performance in this war was mixed. We made several mistakes, which I hope we won't repeat in the next war. There are still colonies in the New World to seize.

  19. #299
    Field Marshal Malurous's Avatar
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    Well done all things considered - that was quite a coalition you were up against at one point. The colonial race is certainly looking worse for Spain now.

    It's typically not a good idea to fight without a general. Even a bad one can make somewhat of a difference and those are easy enough to get...
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  20. #300
    Smart move going to mercantilism, being so large seems to make everyone envy you and that decreases your trade chances significantly even with low infamy. At least that is my experience, and it is kinda annoying.

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