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Thread: Impressions from nearly completed Game

  1. #1

    Impressions from nearly completed Game

    For anyone who is interested, this is the map of europe about 1380 (hopefully the upload worked), with me as Italy.

    My main impression from it was that the HRE is way too powerful, even with Bohemia goone pretty quick, nd my own independence by about 1200, they still took most of France, Spain and Norway, and had primogeniture by 1150, and the salian dynasty is still incharge.

    The Byz Empire was supremley stable, still with the Doukas dynasty, and has started to expand against the hordes.
    Russia, though conquered by the golden horde, won independence quite quickly.

    England and France however where FUBAR, which suggests to me that Empires are too stable whilst kingdoms are the unstable.

    Aside from that, the papcy and venice are both pretty redundent entities and proably need a good DLC or something (adding maybe the papal curia or something).

    My main feeling is that the HRE should be limited in how much it can expand beyond it's de jure lands, which would seem pretty historical to me (Guelph and Ghibilines for example).

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  2. #2
    In my current game, 1201, the HRE has expanded slightly into France, and slightly into Spain (the result of holy war), on the other hand, it fought a 50-60 year long civil war with the Duke of Franconia as the holder of Tunis arranging for 8 or 9 counts/dukes to join his faction. In the intervening period as the Duchy of Prussia I took Mecklenburg and Pomerania. In the ledger during this period the HRE was at maximum able to muster 12k troops and at times it was in the 3k range.

    In the past decade, the Duchy of Anjou has retaken or is in the process of retaking the HRE territory, Muritania and France also split up Portugal which the HRE held.

    The HRE is involved currently in 6 separate internal wars, 5 individual bids for independence and an attempt for the Kingdom of Bohemia. The ledge reports it can at most muster 11k troops. I personally had nothing to do with this downward spiral, but I did piggy back on its misfortune to claim 2 Duchies. It has also been all but kicked out of Italy with Modena and Apulia controlling 75% of Italy between them.

  3. #3
    Field Marshal Lessing's Avatar
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    HRE and ERE are amazingly stable even though I assassinated their leaders a few times. I even got the HRE excommunicated, but no kingdom could break off.

    They didnt expand much though. HRE took Finland. Well phooey.

  4. #4
    You might want to try one of the mods that are around now, they make the empire's in the game less crazy in their expansion. Its still very hard for anyone to break away but that's the way it should be, the HRE did not last for 100s of years for nothing.

  5. #5
    Well, I agree about it being hard ti break away, particularly for vassals in the de jure area - outside that I think it needs to be much harder to prevent massive grey and purple blobs.

    Will check out the mods at some point!
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  6. #6
    In my game, its only 1130 and the dang holy roman empire has gone northeast. Its eaten up both Norway, and Poland, as well as most of Italy. The Bzy empire is holding up well too. Though they did have a break away that actually was able to stay independent. But man that HRE is scary huge already.

  7. #7
    In my sicily game the emperor is a complete shell by 1320. Very few have broken away (saxony did), but all you have to do to become emperor is revolt because the emperor can't do anything to stop you. Their laws are a joke, I know because i conquered the empire. And then reloaded an old save because I didn't want to deal with the mess.

  8. #8
    Field Marshal Moltke's Avatar

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    The HRE always goes after Aquitaine any time de Poitou rebels against france, and if that happens HRE always get the duchy. Sometimes they just attack France head on and take Aquitaine from them. I'm not sure that should happen. While I would have no problem with member states having ambitions in France, I don't think it is really appropriate for the emperor to attack another Christian kingdom over a tenuous claim, at least not without the Pope's blessing.

  9. #9
    Thats weird, because im in my Wales game the HRE has shown zero interest in france. Not sure what happened to Poland. It just vanished. When I dunno, but the kingdom has been gutted, there isnt even a king to be had anymore, in fact, no duchies either.... The King appears to be The King of Bohemia, which I never knew was a kingdom. Edit: Oh, and dont ask me how Venice got that bit of HRE. I have no idea. But its like the first time ive seen in any pictures were venice has done ANYTHING.

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  10. #10
    How odd. In my game. HRE didn't really do anything. I think they won and lost a bit in spain but in the end the golden horde had all of the pope conties. The pope was also mongol, and the golden horde basically owned everything above byz empire, boarded to the HRE aaaaand all of Finland. In which they spent about 150 years till the end just fighting themselves.

  11. #11
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    Hm, I wonder how many of the HRE vassals have claims on Norway at game start, or is this just something occuring because of marriages. I've seen HRE Norway (and Iceland, heh), in all three of the games I've played so far. Worth mentioning that the longest one is only 1066-1280s, though, while the others didn't pass 1150s.

  12. #12
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    My aborted Aragorn game that lasted until 1200 showed promise, at about 1150 I looked at the map and noticed the HRE was in shambles, a bunch of countries went rogue. But then I had some nasty war of my own and when it all settled and I looked at the overall map again some 50 years later, the HRE was clean and shiny as it was when the game started (so was the Byzantines too)
    It sort of reminds me of Roma Universalis, where no matter what you did, eventually it turned into a war of 2-3 mega blobs.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by wolfing View Post
    My aborted Aragorn game that lasted until 1200 showed promise, at about 1150 I looked at the map and noticed the HRE was in shambles, a bunch of countries went rogue. But then I had some nasty war of my own and when it all settled and I looked at the overall map again some 50 years later, the HRE was clean and shiny as it was when the game started (so was the Byzantines too)
    It sort of reminds me of Roma Universalis, where no matter what you did, eventually it turned into a war of 2-3 mega blobs.
    You might have looked at it when there was a rebellion/usurpation/independence/etc. After the rebellion it will be back to normal.

  14. #14
    Field Marshal Moltke's Avatar

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    Hm, I wonder how many of the HRE vassals have claims on Norway at game start, or is this just something occuring because of marriages. I've seen HRE Norway (and Iceland, heh), in all three of the games I've played so far. Worth mentioning that the longest one is only 1066-1280s, though, while the others didn't pass 1150s.
    In my aborted game as Saxony, I was in the midst of some intra-HRE intrigue when I suddenly and unexpectedly inherited the throne of Norway. What I think happened is I had a claim through marriage, and they suddenly changed to elective monarchy, and since my German character was so awesome and amazing they voted him king of the Norwegians.

  15. #15
    Second Lieutenant Chester Nimitz's Avatar
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    I've only made it to about 1150 in my game as Ireland, and the HRE is stable but hardly taking over the known universe. It's not in Scandinavia, though it has carved into northern Poland and southeastern France. France, on the other hand, is doing quite well; it's taken much of North Africa, a fair chunk of Italy, and all of Catalonia (northeast Spain).

    Maybe all the variability in our experiences suggests it's too early to generalize about whether the HRE needs fixing?

  16. #16
    Lt. General wolfing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chester Nimitz View Post
    I've only made it to about 1150 in my game as Ireland, and the HRE is stable but hardly taking over the known universe. It's not in Scandinavia, though it has carved into northern Poland and southeastern France. France, on the other hand, is doing quite well; it's taken much of North Africa, a fair chunk of Italy, and all of Catalonia (northeast Spain).

    Maybe all the variability in our experiences suggests it's too early to generalize about whether the HRE needs fixing?
    I don't see much variability. In pretty much everybody's experience, the HRE remains unbeatable. Maybe they conquer to the North, or East, or South, or West, or maybe they just don't bother conquering, but what actually happened in real life, it dismembering in a whole bunch of estates, nope that's not here.

  17. #17
    General Grumpalodian Aardvark Bellay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfing View Post
    .... but what actually happened in real life, it dismembering in a whole bunch of estates, nope that's not here.
    Where? WHen ? There was always an emperor till the Napoleonic wars. Only Italy seperated, but slowly and it belonged in parts to austria the same as the netherlands and when did they leave the imperial influence ? In 1579. So historically i think it works well and if you want to see them crash, do it yourself.
    On the other hand it happened to some players that they saw the HRE crumble. Doesnt happen often though.
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  18. #18
    http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/46...A19C9F4A705A4/
    They did it to themselves.
    Not entirely sure how, but they lost plenty of northern duchies during a civil war, later HRE was fighting versus heretic Poland and Bohemia while having internal explosion and wasn't doing very well. Croatia was eating some duchies while all of that happened. End Result - Croatia all over the place, including big parts of Africa. They lost most of it though.

  19. #19
    I said ink, not drink! Rob de Hard's Avatar
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    The HRE historically covered all of Spain, Germany, Italy, Austria and a chunk of Hungary you realize?

    The problem is not that it does, but that the in game representation of the 'Empire' is far too literal and a-historical.

    Good game btw. Looks a lot like most of mine. HRE nearly always takes Aquitaine, the Byzantines just go on being epic, Russia never forms/is wasted by Mongols, Iberia is conquered by Leon or France, north Africa is French (usually alexandria to mauretania).

    Everywhere else does not a lot.

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