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Thread: The Rise of Heresy and the end of the Catholic Church - an Interactive Heretic AAR

  1. #81
    Field Marshal naggy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dadarian View Post
    Toulouse: 1066

    You should've called the AAR "A few Good Men" XD, 'tis a clever pun me thinks
    Oooh. I think I'll rename the AAR once we have everything decided. A good choice!

  2. #82
    , I feel special now. Now, just me being a CK2 noob, do you convert first? Or do you wait until one of your holdings converts to Catharism then have your lord convert?



    Arseny Grigoryevich Zverev - People's Kommissar of Defense and 2nd Member of the SGO, in Avindian's Tukhachevsky's Army and the Politburo (Interactive TFH 4.02)
    Deputy Agostino di Gaggiano Franzzini Formerly: Prime Minister Ovidiu, Drăculeşti, Victor of the West, Popa, Drunken Master of Hyperbole. President Codrinaru, the President that was Needed but not Wanted. "Federation of Equals"
    Count Samuel Wilhelm Marcu Vanderhoof of Ghent, 2nd Marquess of Vanderhoof, COO of Northern Flemish Grains. Formerly, Late Lord Minister, Sir Andrei P. Vanderhoof, KL, 1st Marquess of Vanderhoof and Count of Ghent & His August Presence, the Late Lord Minister Wilhelm Vanderhoof Delegate for, Deputy of and Honourary Lord Protector of Ghent, Minister without Portfolio
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    Skalf, Godling and Maniac

    [19:42:59] <Keperry> You think wrong.

  3. #83
    Field Marshal naggy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dadarian View Post
    , I feel special now. Now, just me being a CK2 noob, do you convert first? Or do you wait until one of your holdings converts to Catharism then have your lord convert?
    Depends on when we start, I suppose. I can convert using education, or my provinces can get heresy events.

  4. #84
    Toulous, +1. This belongs to France in the game right?

  5. #85
    Thoroughly Useless Konnigratz's Avatar
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    Another vote for Toulouse. Though I'd say we need some sort of carnivorous reformation.

  6. #86
    General Taiisatai64's Avatar
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    Why not Aquitaine?

    Anyway, historically, wasn't the south of France rife with Catharist heresy?

  7. #87
    Field Marshal hjarg's Avatar
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    Toulose is boring! Everyone knows Cathars are there!
    How about Catharic vikings- Kingdom of Nowray! :P
    My latest AARs

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  8. #88
    Second Lieutenant Brougal's Avatar
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    Toulose 1066

  9. #89
    Second Lieutenant TXTwilight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aardvark Bellay View Post
    Btw, in the german wikipedia they explain the different levels of catharism, so if your are not priest-like, you may still be allowed to drink, eat meat and fornicate like a sailor as far as i understand. So as i understand its like in buddhism, where you can be supposed to be a supporter of your religion, but dont have to become a buddhist like the monks/buddhas (simplified here).
    Yup, saw this also on a documentary.

    Touluse 1066. Looking forward for your AAR.

  10. #90
    Biased Intellectual metalinvader665's Avatar
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    Let's make it a bit harder and be a count -- County of Narbonne 1066!

  11. #91
    Corporal UristMcLocal's Avatar
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    Another vote for County of Narbonne, 1066

  12. #92
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    toulouse 1066

  13. #93
    County of Narbonne, 1066

    This is passive aggressive move. Send those vegans back to whatever pit they crawled out of.

  14. #94
    Field Marshal naggy's Avatar
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    The votes are final - the starting point will be Toulouse on September 15, 1066. I'll start the introduction and finish the mod shortly.

    Toulouse had 15 votes to 6 for Narbonne and 3 for Pfalz.
    1066 had 15 votes to 3 for 1150.

  15. #95
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    The History of Toulouse - antiquity to the Visigoths

    Toulouse sits at the bend of the Garonne River, where it turns west to meet the Atlantic Ocean, and its position on the river, central between the Atlantic and Mediterranian, and just north of the Pyrennes created a rich trading city that was a focal point through the centuries.

    Founding and Roman Times

    Historians have evidence of the original city (Tolosa) back to at least the 8th century BC. The city was possibly founded by Aquitainians, after which Iberians and Gallic tribes moved in. By 200 BC, Tolosa was the capital of the Volcae Tectosages, and was famed in Rome for being one of the most important cities in Gaul (and the wealthiest). The city's trading position, nearby gold and silver mines, and famous temples brought coin and trade to the city.

    Rich cities tend to draw conquest, and as the Romans invaded Gaul in the second century BC, they came towards Tolosa. Originally, Tolosa sided with the Romans, but they revolted and slaughtered the Roman garrison after a Roman defeat. Unfortunately for them, the Romans didn't stay beaten, and they recaptured Tolosa and punished the city severely.

    During the reign of Augustus, the city was moved to the plain and rebuilt as the Roman city Tolosa, where it grew to be one of the more influential cities of the Empire. Emperor Domitian gave the city the status of Roman colony, and gave it the honorific of Palladia (after Pallas Athena). Palladia Tolosa was a major Roman city, with aqueducts, circus and theaters, thermae, a forum, and an extensive sewage system. Protected by its walls and by its far location from the Rhine border, Palladia Tolosa escaped unscathed from the upheavals and invasions of the 3rd century. With much of Gaul destroyed, Toulouse emerged as the fourth largest city of the western half of the Roman Empire, after Rome, Treves and Arles.

    In 250 AD, Pope Fabian sent Saint Saturnin to Toulouse to rebuild the Christian communities after a wave of repression from Emperor Decius. Saturnin was styled as the first Bishop of Tolosa, and was martyred in 257 for refusing to sacrificing to the images at the Roman temples. After the Edict of Milan brought tolerance (and later leadership) for Christianity in the Empire, the Saint-Sernin basilica was built in 403 to house the Saint's remains.

    The Visigothic Kingdom

    With the disintegration of the Roman Empire and the sack of Rome by the Visigoths, the end of Roman rule in Spain and southern France was at hand. Toulouse fell to the Visigoths temporarily in 413, and was finally handed to them permanently in 418 by Emperor Honorius in exchange for peace. The Visigoths chose to make Toulouse their capital.

    With their new capital, lands in Aquitainia, and status as foederati (allies) to the Empire, the Visigoths immediately expanded into Spain by throwing out various invaders, and tried to expand east into Narbonne. This led them into on-again/off-again conflict with the rapidly weakening empire, but did not prevent King Theodoric the Great from allying with Flavius Aetius and checking the Huns at Châlons.

    Châlons became a turning point for the Visigothic kingdom and Rome, as Theodoric was killed. Theodoric II helped place Avitus on the throne in Rome, but when he was deposed the next year, Theodoric refused to support him. This ended the alliance with Rome in fact (but not in name), resulting in Narbonne falling to the Visigoths in 462, and in King Euric declaring outright independence from Rome in 475.

    Unlike the pagan Franks to the north, the Arian Visigoths were heavily Romanized, to the point that Alaric II created the Breviary of Alaric collection of law in 506. When the Franks converted to Catholicism under Clovis and invaded, however, the Visigoths were crushed and forced to retreat to their Spanish holdings. By 508, the Franks controlled the whole of Aquitania, shifting Toulouse from a vibrant capital of a Romanized kingdom to a near-backwater.

  16. #96
    This will be a great AAR. I tried my own with Cathar Toulouse but was killed for non Cathar reasons surprisingly. Good luck to you all. Spread the truth

  17. #97
    Field Marshal naggy's Avatar
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    The History of Toulouse - Decline and Recovery

    Merovingian Franks

    With Toulouse falling under the "control" of the Franks, Toulouse suffered like the rest of the Frankish kingdom from a decline in education, literacy, trade, and culture, along with bad weather, famines, and plagues. Being far from the seat of Frankish power, they invariably became an unimportant backwater to whatever Frankish brother was trying to wrest control of the kingdom (or whatever Frankish brother was trying to keep control of the kingdom).

    By 680, infighting and the practice of Frankish princes delegating work to Dukes led to Felix, Duke of Aquitaine and Vasconia, becoming virtually independent. The dukes were not recognized as independent, but were largely unhindered in their rule from Toulouse.

    The independence of the Dukes of Aquitaine would be shattered when the Arabs arrived. Visigothic Narbonne fell in 718, and Duke Odo of Aquitaine found himself outnumbered as the Arabs laid siege to Toulouse in 721. Leaving the city to the siege, Odo first looked to the Franks for support, but was rebuffed - the Franks wanted to use this chance to recover Aquitaine. Instead, Odo raised armies from his lands and from the Gascons, and crushed the Arabs at the Battle of Toulouse on June 9, 721.

    To protect his lands, Odo allied with the Muslim ruler of Catalonia. This backfired when said ruler revolted and was crushed, leading the new wali of al-Andalus to decide to punish Odo for his victory a decade prior. Rather than attack from Narbonne, the Arabs took Bordeaux and struck towards Tours. Odo, out of men and allies, was forced again to ask the Franks for help.

    This time, Charles Martel chose to act, and his army slaughtered the Arabs at Poitiers on October 25th, 732. This brought Odo under nominal rule of the Franks, and permanently checked Arab gains in the west.

    The Franks, under Pippin the Short, now focused on bringing Aquitaine to heel. They captured Narbonne from the Arabs in 759, surrounding Aquitaine from 3 sides, and began a brutal 8 year campaign to subdue Aquitaine, succeeding finally in 760.

    Kingdom of Aquitaine

    With the death of Pippin, Charlemagne rose to power. In 778, he invaded Spain, and upon his return, his rear guard was set upon at Roncevaux by Basque warriors. This made it clear that the area was not truly under Frankish control.

    In 781, he created the Kingdom of Aquitaine, including Aquitaine, Gascony, and the Mediterranian coast, and gave the crown to his 3 year old son, Louis. Toulouse became the central staging point for repeated invasions south into Spain, resulting in the conquests of Barcelona and much of Catalonia in 801.



    Due to the Frankish custom of gavelkind succession, Charlemagne's massive empire again split up and reformed as emperors and kings died and their sons replaced them. The empire's sole ability to maintain a grip on power was that the King appointed the succession of the counties and duchies. Unfortunately, in the mid 9th Century, Charles the Bald was unable to protect his empire from Viking raiders, moving authority and protection downward to the counts. In 877, he was forced to sign the Capitulary of Quierzy, formalizing the custom of counties being passed down by inheritance, and paving the way for the feudal system. With the death of Louis the Stammerer in 879, the Kingdom of Aquitaine ceased to exist, with power devolving to lesser duchies and counties.

    "County" of Toulouse

    With the end of the Kingdom of Aquitaine, Toulouse was no longer the capital of a client kingdom, but an independent county surrounded by other power-hungry independent counties. The Counts of Auvergne challenged the Counts of Toulouse and even took Toulouse for a short period of time, only to die out in 918, with their lands going to the Count of Toulouse. While the Duchy of Aquitaine was self-created in the 890's by William the Pious of Auvergne (and later handed out to a King's favorite decades later), for all practical purposes, it would never again assert control over Toulouse.

    Unfortunately, the 10th century was unkind to France in general, and Toulouse in particular. The Counts of Toulouse owned a huge swath of land on paper, but was unable to assert control outside their own estates - to the point that they even lost control of the city of Toulouse to an independent viscount. As if they didn't have enough troubles, the Caliph of Cordoba invaded in 920 and (possibly 929), and the Maygars invaded from the east in 924. Toulouse had truly reached a dark age.

    Recovery?

    While Toulouse had massive problems (depopulated countryside, abandoned churches and farms, disrupted trade, no control), they had several unique advantages over their neighbors to the north. Toulouse still operated under Visgothic/Roman Law, had cultural and trade ties to Muslim Spain, and had considerable freedom. While she was not in the best of shape, the same could be said for her neighbors...

  18. #98
    *Claps hands* You naggy are truely dedicated on making a good AAR, and that is a good thing in my opinion.



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    Count Samuel Wilhelm Marcu Vanderhoof of Ghent, 2nd Marquess of Vanderhoof, COO of Northern Flemish Grains. Formerly, Late Lord Minister, Sir Andrei P. Vanderhoof, KL, 1st Marquess of Vanderhoof and Count of Ghent & His August Presence, the Late Lord Minister Wilhelm Vanderhoof Delegate for, Deputy of and Honourary Lord Protector of Ghent, Minister without Portfolio
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    [19:42:59] <Keperry> You think wrong.

  19. #99
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    Toulouse in the 1060's

    While modern historians are loathe to use the term "Dark Age", for Toulouse and area of Narbonne, the 10th century and first half of the 11th century certainly qualified. The intersection of the rise of Catharism and the dynasty of de Toulouse can be traced back to the rule of Guilhèm IV.

    Almodis de la Marche
    Guilhèm, son of Pons de Toulouse and Almodis de la Marche, rose to his office as Count of Toulouse, Margrave of Provence, and Duke of Narbonne upon his father's death in 1061. As a young boy, Guilhèm's mother was kidnapped by Ramon Berenguer, the Count of Barcelona, whom she married as her third husband - all of whom were still living (at the time).



    Almodis de la Marche's marriage to her first husband, Hugues of Lusignan, was ended due to consanguinity, but not before she had three children:
    • Matheode
    • Hugues, Count of Lusignan
    • Mélisende

    She then married Pons in 1040, to which she had four children:
    • Almodis
    • Guilhèm
    • Raimond
    • Ugues

    After she was kidnapped and married to Ramon Berenguer, she was excommunicated and had 4 more children:
    • Berenguer Ramon
    • Ramon Berenguer II
    • Arnau
    • Agnès
    • Sança

    Guilhèm

    With his father passing away when he was 13, and his mother kidnapped away to another court, Guilhèm was forced to grow up fast and hard. While he grew up to be an outgoing man with a keen sense of justice, he was not particularly skilled in any one facet of rule. What would come to define his rule, and put his dynasty on the path of Catharism, would be his love for his mother and his drive to see her exonerated.



    Toulouse

    In the early 1060's, Guilhèm ruled from the Rhône river in the east, to the outskirts of Cahors in the west, from the Pyrennes in the south, to just south of Limoges. To the south, the County of Barcelona (essentially a duchy), to the north and west lay the Duchy of Aquitaine (the on-again/off-again rivals to the dukes in Toulouse), and to the east, the Duchy of Province under the Holy Roman Empire. Toulouse was no richer or poorer than her neighbors, though the realm is dwarfed in size by Aquitaine to the north and west.


  20. #100
    Nice guy, Guilhem looks to be. Exactly what are his traits? I don't want to be pushy, but is it okay of you could post the traits of any future rulers too?

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