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Thread: The Rise of Heresy and the end of the Catholic Church - an Interactive Heretic AAR

  1. #1
    Field Marshal naggy's Avatar
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    The Rise of Catharism and the end of the Catholic Church - an Interactive Heretic AAR

    I've decided to run a second AAR alongside my Parma AAR and play as a Heretic. And since I've never done an Interactive AAR, I figure we can try one. I'll try to be more history-bookish in this AAR, but there will be interspersed gameplay posts.

    The Heresy chosen is Cathar.
    The Realm and Start date chosen is the Duchy of Toulouse, September 15, 1066.

    Once the game starts, I'll have stopping points where I'll lay out opportunities that I see where it makes sense to ask for input.

    Oh...and one alternate option: if there is interest, we can pass the game off at the death of each ruler, so long as the next player commits to updating the AAR and following the established themes.

    Note: Per the AARLand Rules, this Interactive AAR has been approved by Qorten.
    Last edited by naggy; 03-03-2012 at 22:41.

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  3. #3
    Field Marshal naggy's Avatar
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    An Introduction to Catharism

    Catharism, like any Protestant denomination and most other heresies, is defined in two ways:
    • What they didn't like about the church they split from (Catholics)
    • What they believed differently from the church they split from

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernard Gui
    ...they usually say of themselves that they are good Christians, ...hold the faith of the Lord Jesus Christ and his gospel as the apostles taught... occupy the place of the apostles. ...they talk to the laity of the evil lives of the clerks and prelates of the Roman Church... ...they attack and vituperate, in turn, all the sacraments of the Church, especially the sacrament of the eucharist, saying that it cannot contain the body of Christ... Of baptism, they assert that the water is material and corruptible... and cannot sanctify the soul... ...they claim that confession made to the priests of the Roman Church is useless... They assert, moreover, that the cross of Christ should not be adored or venerated... Moreover they read from the Gospels and the Epistles in the vulgar tongue, applying and expounding them in their favour and against the condition of the Roman Church...

    — On the Albigensians
    What we know of the Cathar is limited and skewed, as the Church destroyed many of their works. Thus, we have a few works of theirs, and the statements of their enemies (not always the most reliable sources, no?). The Cathari generally referred to themselves as Good Men or Good Christians (it is debatable whether the term Cathars was used by them - this AAR will strive to use Good Men and Good Christians when Cathari refer to each other), and it is clear that they rose in parallel with Bogomilists, and shared many beliefs with them.

    Cathars seem to have risen quickly in the mid 12th century, finding popularity in the Rheinland (especially Cologne), France, and Northern Italy. There was cross-pollination with Bogomilists, culminating with the Council of Saint-Félix which was attended by Nicetas, the Bogomilist Bishop of Constantinople. They were able to flourish in the relatively liberal and open areas of Europe, and it is clear that Cathari teachings were popular not only with the masses, but also with Church officials. An entire cathedral chapter in Orleans defected to Catharism. The church found itself outmatched in open theological debates, losing adherents, priests, and even money (as Cathars refused to tithe).

    The faiths were, quite simply, doomed to conflict. The Catholic Church reveres both the Old and New Testament, whereas the Cathars disowned the Old Testament. To the Cathars, the God of the Old Testament was the Demiurge (similar to the Devil). The Cathars believed that the world was created by the Demiurge, and thus all material things were corrupt and somewhat evil. Good things (souls, for example) were created by their Good God, the God of Light.

    Cathars denigrated the feudal system, as it depended on oaths. To the Catholic Church of the period, the Feudal system was an extension of divine right, and it was the natural order of things. Cathars were closer to the original church in their belief in the evils of riches, whereas Catholic Bishops were notorious for living well. Even Pope Innocent III, the richest man in Christendom, noted of the Archbishop of Narbonne:

    "…He knows no other god but money and has a purse where his heart should be. His monks and canons take mistresses and live by usury… Throughout the region the prelates are the laughing stock of the laity."

    The Cathars also spurned the Catholic veneration of the cross and relics, as they were physical things. They refused to eat meat, believed in reincarnation, and believed non-procreative sex was superior to procreative sex (the opposite of the Catholic Church).

    With the Cathars drawing from Catholic lands, nobles, priests, and believers, Catholicism could only react with reform, stunning theological arguments, or bloodshed.
    Last edited by naggy; 01-03-2012 at 18:09.

  4. #4
    I'll support Star Wars: The Old Republic and say "Cathar". I'd suggest making voting periods shorter, just to keep interest up.

  5. #5
    I vote for "Cathar" , also i agree voting should probabley be made shorter.

  6. #6
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  7. #7
    Lollards, for the "Lol."

  8. #8
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    Cathar!

  9. #9
    Well, Nestorianism is always fun. If you can, go for it.

  10. #10
    Rättshaverist FrozenWall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morrell8 View Post
    Lollards, for the "Lol."
    aye!
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  11. #11

  12. #12
    Slacker Extraordinaire Zzzzz...'s Avatar
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  13. #13
    Second Lieutenant Vaderi's Avatar
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    just to be heretical I'll vote for Waldensian

  14. #14
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    This sounds promising. Another vote for Iconoclast.
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  16. #16
    Iconoclast too.

  17. #17
    Cathar, Let's have some Southern French fun


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  18. #18
    Cathar! My bishops keep trying to convert me, so why not see what it's like.
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  19. #19
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    Monophysite so you can start as early as possible and play the entire campaign.

  20. #20
    Hate to go with the flow, but I cast my vote for Cathar.

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