+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 129

Thread: The Rise of Heresy and the end of the Catholic Church - an Interactive Heretic AAR

  1. #1
    Field Marshal naggy's Avatar
    HoI AnthologyCities in MotionCrusader Kings IIEuropa Universalis 3Divine Wind
    For the MotherlandHearts of Iron IIIHeir to the ThroneEuropa Universalis III: In NomineKing Arthur II
    MagickaMajesty 2EU3 Napoleon's AmbitionEuropa Universalis: RomeSemper Fi
    Victoria 2Victoria II: A House DividedRome: Vae VictisMount & Blade: WarbandCK2: Holy Knight
    500k clubEuropa Universalis IV

    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Indianapolis, Indiana, United States
    Posts
    5,755
    Blog Entries
    20

    The Rise of Catharism and the end of the Catholic Church - an Interactive Heretic AAR

    I've decided to run a second AAR alongside my Parma AAR and play as a Heretic. And since I've never done an Interactive AAR, I figure we can try one. I'll try to be more history-bookish in this AAR, but there will be interspersed gameplay posts.

    The Heresy chosen is Cathar.
    The Realm and Start date chosen is the Duchy of Toulouse, September 15, 1066.

    Once the game starts, I'll have stopping points where I'll lay out opportunities that I see where it makes sense to ask for input.

    Oh...and one alternate option: if there is interest, we can pass the game off at the death of each ruler, so long as the next player commits to updating the AAR and following the established themes.

    Note: Per the AARLand Rules, this Interactive AAR has been approved by Qorten.
    Last edited by naggy; 03-03-2012 at 21:41.

  2. #2

  3. #3
    Field Marshal naggy's Avatar
    HoI AnthologyCities in MotionCrusader Kings IIEuropa Universalis 3Divine Wind
    For the MotherlandHearts of Iron IIIHeir to the ThroneEuropa Universalis III: In NomineKing Arthur II
    MagickaMajesty 2EU3 Napoleon's AmbitionEuropa Universalis: RomeSemper Fi
    Victoria 2Victoria II: A House DividedRome: Vae VictisMount & Blade: WarbandCK2: Holy Knight
    500k clubEuropa Universalis IV

    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Indianapolis, Indiana, United States
    Posts
    5,755
    Blog Entries
    20

    An Introduction to Catharism

    Catharism, like any Protestant denomination and most other heresies, is defined in two ways:
    • What they didn't like about the church they split from (Catholics)
    • What they believed differently from the church they split from

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernard Gui
    ...they usually say of themselves that they are good Christians, ...hold the faith of the Lord Jesus Christ and his gospel as the apostles taught... occupy the place of the apostles. ...they talk to the laity of the evil lives of the clerks and prelates of the Roman Church... ...they attack and vituperate, in turn, all the sacraments of the Church, especially the sacrament of the eucharist, saying that it cannot contain the body of Christ... Of baptism, they assert that the water is material and corruptible... and cannot sanctify the soul... ...they claim that confession made to the priests of the Roman Church is useless... They assert, moreover, that the cross of Christ should not be adored or venerated... Moreover they read from the Gospels and the Epistles in the vulgar tongue, applying and expounding them in their favour and against the condition of the Roman Church...

    — On the Albigensians
    What we know of the Cathar is limited and skewed, as the Church destroyed many of their works. Thus, we have a few works of theirs, and the statements of their enemies (not always the most reliable sources, no?). The Cathari generally referred to themselves as Good Men or Good Christians (it is debatable whether the term Cathars was used by them - this AAR will strive to use Good Men and Good Christians when Cathari refer to each other), and it is clear that they rose in parallel with Bogomilists, and shared many beliefs with them.

    Cathars seem to have risen quickly in the mid 12th century, finding popularity in the Rheinland (especially Cologne), France, and Northern Italy. There was cross-pollination with Bogomilists, culminating with the Council of Saint-Félix which was attended by Nicetas, the Bogomilist Bishop of Constantinople. They were able to flourish in the relatively liberal and open areas of Europe, and it is clear that Cathari teachings were popular not only with the masses, but also with Church officials. An entire cathedral chapter in Orleans defected to Catharism. The church found itself outmatched in open theological debates, losing adherents, priests, and even money (as Cathars refused to tithe).

    The faiths were, quite simply, doomed to conflict. The Catholic Church reveres both the Old and New Testament, whereas the Cathars disowned the Old Testament. To the Cathars, the God of the Old Testament was the Demiurge (similar to the Devil). The Cathars believed that the world was created by the Demiurge, and thus all material things were corrupt and somewhat evil. Good things (souls, for example) were created by their Good God, the God of Light.

    Cathars denigrated the feudal system, as it depended on oaths. To the Catholic Church of the period, the Feudal system was an extension of divine right, and it was the natural order of things. Cathars were closer to the original church in their belief in the evils of riches, whereas Catholic Bishops were notorious for living well. Even Pope Innocent III, the richest man in Christendom, noted of the Archbishop of Narbonne:

    "…He knows no other god but money and has a purse where his heart should be. His monks and canons take mistresses and live by usury… Throughout the region the prelates are the laughing stock of the laity."

    The Cathars also spurned the Catholic veneration of the cross and relics, as they were physical things. They refused to eat meat, believed in reincarnation, and believed non-procreative sex was superior to procreative sex (the opposite of the Catholic Church).

    With the Cathars drawing from Catholic lands, nobles, priests, and believers, Catholicism could only react with reform, stunning theological arguments, or bloodshed.
    Last edited by naggy; 01-03-2012 at 17:09.

  4. #4
    I'll support Star Wars: The Old Republic and say "Cathar". I'd suggest making voting periods shorter, just to keep interest up.

  5. #5
    I vote for "Cathar" , also i agree voting should probabley be made shorter.

  6. #6
    Success depends on forethought videonfan's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIDarkest HourDeus VultEU3 CompleteDivine Wind
    For the MotherlandHearts of Iron III CollectionHOI3: Their Finest HourHeir to the ThroneVictoria: Revolutions
    Rome GoldSengokuSupreme Ruler: Cold WarVictoria 2Victoria II: A House Divided
    Victoria II: Heart of DarknessRome: Vae VictisMount & Blade: With Fire and SwordCK2: Holy Knight500k club
    Europa Universalis IV

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Where no man has gone before!
    Posts
    3,114
    Iconoclas

  7. #7
    Lollards, for the "Lol."

  8. #8
    Corporal Tryggen's Avatar
    Cities in MotionCrusader Kings IIEuropa Universalis: ChroniclesHearts of Iron III CollectionMagicka
    Majesty 2Rome GoldSengokuSword of the StarsMount & Blade: Warband
    Warlock: Master of the Arcane500k clubEuropa Universalis IV: Pre-order

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    40
    Cathar!

  9. #9
    Well, Nestorianism is always fun. If you can, go for it.

  10. #10
    Rättshaverist FrozenWall's Avatar
    HoI AnthologyCrusader Kings IIDeus VultDivine WindHearts of Iron III
    Heir to the ThroneEuropa Universalis III: In NomineEU3 Napoleon's AmbitionVictoria: RevolutionsEuropa Universalis: Rome
    Semper FiVictoria 2Rome: Vae Victis

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Juridicum
    Posts
    1,232
    Quote Originally Posted by Morrell8 View Post
    Lollards, for the "Lol."
    aye!
    GM and Last of the Carolingians in:
    Sunday night MP Megacampaign: God Will Know His Own
    The Great Game III MP Mega-Campaign: Children of the Fatherland , Day of Glory (finished)
    Proprietor of one Lord Strange Cookie. , WritAAR of the Week: Feb. 6, 2011

  11. #11

  12. #12
    Slacker Extraordinaire Zzzzz...'s Avatar
    67 games registered

    67

    Achtung PanzerA Game of DwarvesHoI AnthologyArsenal of DemocracyHearts of Iron 2: Armageddon
    Cities in MotionCities in Motion 2Crusader Kings IICommander: Conquest of the AmericasDarkest Hour
    Deus VultDiplomacyEast India Company CollectionElven Legacy CollectionEuropa Universalis 3
    Europa Universalis: ChroniclesEU3 CompleteDivine WindFor The GloryFor the Motherland
    Hearts of Iron III CollectionHeir to the ThroneEuropa Universalis III: In NomineIron CrossKing Arthur II
    MagickaMajesty II CollectionMarch of the EaglesEU3 Napoleon's AmbitionPenumbra - Black Plague
    Victoria: RevolutionsEuropa Universalis: RomeRome GoldSemper FiSengoku
    Supreme Ruler 2020 GoldSupreme Ruler: Cold WarVictoria 2Victoria II: A House DividedVictoria II: Heart of Darkness
    Rome: Vae VictisMount & Blade: WarbandWarlock: Master of the ArcaneMount & Blade: With Fire and SwordPride of Nations
    CK2: Holy KnightEU Rome Collectors EditionEU3 Collectors Edition500k clubEuropa Universalis IV

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    If the place is comfy to sleep in, yes, you can find me there!
    Posts
    2,322
    Iconoclast

  13. #13
    Restricted access until e-mail confirmed Vaderi's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIEU3 CompleteDivine WindFor the MotherlandHearts of Iron III
    Heir to the ThroneRome GoldSemper FiVictoria 2Victoria II: A House Divided
    Europa Universalis IV

    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Bristol,United States
    Posts
    166
    just to be heretical I'll vote for Waldensian

  14. #14
    General morningSIDEr's Avatar
    Hearts of Iron 2: ArmageddonCrusader Kings IIDeus VultEuropa Universalis 3Divine Wind
    Hearts of Iron IIIHeir to the ThroneEuropa Universalis III: In NomineEU3 Napoleon's AmbitionVictoria: Revolutions
    Europa Universalis: RomeVictoria 2Victoria II: A House DividedRome: Vae Victis

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Edinburgh, Scotland
    Posts
    2,362
    This sounds promising. Another vote for Iconoclast.
    This AAR Soks
    WritAAR of the Week: 8 January 2012 and Weekly AAR Showcase: 15 April 2012

    Are you Deshtined to suffer another kiss?
    Favourite EU Comedy AAR AARland Choice AwAARds 2010 (Q3) and 2011 (Q3)
    Character Writer of the Week: 5 December 2010


    My Inkwell - Warning! This content is rated EP: Extremely Poor
    Fan of the Week: 7 September 2010, 27 February 2011 and 26 April 2012

  15. #15
    Slacker Extraordinaire Zzzzz...'s Avatar
    67 games registered

    67

    Achtung PanzerA Game of DwarvesHoI AnthologyArsenal of DemocracyHearts of Iron 2: Armageddon
    Cities in MotionCities in Motion 2Crusader Kings IICommander: Conquest of the AmericasDarkest Hour
    Deus VultDiplomacyEast India Company CollectionElven Legacy CollectionEuropa Universalis 3
    Europa Universalis: ChroniclesEU3 CompleteDivine WindFor The GloryFor the Motherland
    Hearts of Iron III CollectionHeir to the ThroneEuropa Universalis III: In NomineIron CrossKing Arthur II
    MagickaMajesty II CollectionMarch of the EaglesEU3 Napoleon's AmbitionPenumbra - Black Plague
    Victoria: RevolutionsEuropa Universalis: RomeRome GoldSemper FiSengoku
    Supreme Ruler 2020 GoldSupreme Ruler: Cold WarVictoria 2Victoria II: A House DividedVictoria II: Heart of Darkness
    Rome: Vae VictisMount & Blade: WarbandWarlock: Master of the ArcaneMount & Blade: With Fire and SwordPride of Nations
    CK2: Holy KnightEU Rome Collectors EditionEU3 Collectors Edition500k clubEuropa Universalis IV

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    If the place is comfy to sleep in, yes, you can find me there!
    Posts
    2,322
    Dudes, choose Iconoclast! Smashing things is fun!

  16. #16
    Iconoclast too.

  17. #17
    Cathar, Let's have some Southern French fun
    Role Player of the Month - 02/05/13
    My Poor Inkwell


    The Most Hon. Dadarian MacDadarian, Chief of Clan Dadarian, PC, MP for Gorbals, Mouth of the Great Prophet and Head of the Cult of Hayek
    Arseny Grigoryevich Zverev - People's Kommissar of Defense and 2nd Member of the SGO, in Avindian's Tukhachevsky's Army and the Politburo (Interactive TFH 4.02)
    Councilor Ovidiu C. Gheorghescu. Formerly: Drăculeşti, Victor of the West, Popa, Drunken Master of Hyperbole. President Codrinaru, the President that was Needed but not Wanted. "Federation of Equals"
    Lord Minister, Sir Andrei Popa Vanderhoof, KL, Deputy of Ghent and Minister of Flanders, formerly His August Presence, the Late Lord Minister Wilhelm Vanderhoof Delegate for, Deputy of and Honourary Lord Protector of Ghent, Minister without Portfolio
    Friedrich I von Altmark, Duke of Saxony and Lord of the Old March
    Stadtholder Friedrich-Augustus von Altmark, Graf von Altmark in Avindian's "Sonderweg oder Anderweg?"
    William Edward George, Land Baron, Industrialist and perpetually in Debt in Keld's "Rise of a Superpower"

    [19:42:59] <Keperry> You think wrong.

  18. #18
    Cathar! My bishops keep trying to convert me, so why not see what it's like.
    All generalizations are false, including this one. -Mark Twain
    All you need is ignorance and confidence and the success is sure. -Mark Twain
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt. -Mark Twain
    That last one is why I read a lot of posts and don't write many.

  19. #19
    Ruler of Somewhere else Thandros's Avatar
    Cities in MotionCrusader Kings IIEU3 CompleteDivine WindFor the Motherland
    Hearts of Iron IIIHOI3: Their Finest HourHeir to the ThroneMarch of the EaglesRome Gold
    Semper FiSengokuSword of the StarsSword of the Stars IISupreme Ruler: Cold War
    Victoria 2Victoria II: A House DividedVictoria II: Heart of DarknessMount & Blade: WarbandMount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
    Pride of NationsRise of PrussiaEuropa Universalis IV

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    In a Secret Underground Bunker 50km beneath the Earth's surface
    Posts
    622
    Monophysite so you can start as early as possible and play the entire campaign.

  20. #20
    Hate to go with the flow, but I cast my vote for Cathar.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts