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Say that to Summerians. Or Pheonicians. Or Classical Mayans.

A Sumerian game would be worth it just to get rulers like Lugal-zage-si, En-nun-tarah-ana and Enmebaragesi. Those are names to contend with!

An added bonus is that your early kings would live for many thousands of years.
 
Hope this doesn't count as thread necromancy. . . .
I just returned from Italy from a holiday with my family & I have to say that it fired my enthusiasm for a Rome sequel mightily. I am imagining that a game like this would best be created from the point of a dynasty or perhaps a clan, not unlike Crusader Kings. The thing I believe would make such a game stand out from other PDS titles would the chances it would present for families to invest in "their" home cities by building monuments, fora, creating vast latifundia, and so on. Thus it could be more of a city-builder than one typically has seen in Paradox games, while retaining enough of a strategic focus to make diplomacy worthwhile.

This is perhaps not the best combination of impulses, but I firmly believe that a game about the ancient world could present plenty of distinctive gameplay elements to set it apart from CK and EU.
 
I don't get this fascination with families and clans. It's a game about the Roman Empire. Not the city of Rome and the nearby provinces. It's a military empire we're talking about. If people want a game about Roman families then a sequel of EU: Rome or a new series is not something they should be looking at.
I'm pretty sure that most people who want Rome don't want it to be more like CK than EU. I'm sure there are CK fans who would like a similar game in the Roman era, but it's a totally different genre and it doesn't give you the feeling of controlling the Roman Empire. It does not suit the period of time. And yes, what you're talking about sounds like a city building game based on ancient Rome with a political character. That's not what people see 'Rome 2' as.

Paradox should build upon EU:Rome but without the EU focus and by not adding CK focus. A game set in ancient times (insert potential dates) and presentation of the world as it was at the time. Same way this was proven successful with EU, CK, HoI and Victoria series. So please, no families/clans other than perfecting what EU: Rome already has.
 
EU Rome already has families and clans

Yes but it's not the focus of the game. It has it to the level that it should have it. Controlling families instead of states makes no sense in a game about ancient Rome.
 
Yes but it's not the focus of the game. It has it to the level that it should have it. Controlling families instead of states makes no sense in a game about ancient Rome.
Well, it could to some people -- the involvement of families in building cities and entire economic infrastructures was pretty considerable, in my opinion. But my point in reviving the thread wasn't to push for that idea in particular but to remind P'dox of the considerable interest out there for an ancient game.
 
a game after the western empires collapse would be awesome. barbarian invasions and tributes, backstabbery. fighting the Persians to take back lost ERE land just in time for the Muslim invasions. meanwhile the Anglo Saxons and Slavs are invading and charlemagne is a conquering.
 
Well, I think after HoI4 PDS should definitely build an EU-Rome sequel, a proper game this time. I am craving hungrily for it since the train wreck that was Rome II Total War turned out so bad.

I don't get this fascination with families and clans. It's a game about the Roman Empire. Not the city of Rome and the nearby provinces. It's a military empire we're talking about. If people want a game about Roman families then a sequel of EU: Rome or a new series is not something they should be looking at.
I'm pretty sure that most people who want Rome don't want it to be more like CK than EU. I'm sure there are CK fans who would like a similar game in the Roman era, but it's a totally different genre and it doesn't give you the feeling of controlling the Roman Empire. It does not suit the period of time. And yes, what you're talking about sounds like a city building game based on ancient Rome with a political character. That's not what people see 'Rome 2' as.

Paradox should build upon EU:Rome but without the EU focus and by not adding CK focus. A game set in ancient times (insert potential dates) and presentation of the world as it was at the time. Same way this was proven successful with EU, CK, HoI and Victoria series. So please, no families/clans other than perfecting what EU: Rome already has.

An EU-Rome game that doesn't have CK focus would be extremely boring.

That smaller map area requires lots of focus on characters, how they interact and how players can influence/completely take over them. In a map of such a small scale, roleplay is important, or else what would the player do once he has conquered the map to his heart's content and built all the buildings? This timeframe would have far more backhanded dealings, assassinations, family ties and tensions, bloodier and interesting politics compared to CK2.

Another reason to include a full-scale CK2 style gameplay is because there are lots and lots of interesting personalities in this era, even more than 1399-1821 timeline. They simply didn't live an idle, dull life as some nation's advisor or general.

And character focus is completely necessary to simulate Rome. Or else Caesar's or Sulla's civil wars would be termed nothing more than "Pretender Rebels" in EU context. Even when Rome became an Empire, the characters and their lives were extremely important (especially in the Italia Province), and there is a need to simulate regiments and entire legions/armies becoming loyal to a commander, for example lots of the western Legions of the Roman Republic had their loyalties lie with Caesar and deserted en-masse to his camp whenever the Optimates commanded them to go against him. Without character focus, playing this game would be bland and boring, which will reduce further customers and the possibility of any sequel.

Not to mention you have political factions in almost all of the nations, which cannot be simulated like Vicky2's parliaments and senates unless the game depicts whole world with huge 19th-century style population. Mediterranean is full of organized governments. You need characters to fill those posts, join factions, participate in the politics or military of their state (and earn prestige and envy of others in the process) or fall from history, participate in assassinations and briberies and court trials, take part in their family affairs in CK2 style (for example two senators have feuding families, clash and compete over the governorship of a province, and then ease tensions by arranging a marriage between both families) and so on. For this you need a character focus.

And this time, I think Paradox should allow us to *play* those characters like in CK2, instead of just watching over their lives as in the old EU-Rome.
 
Well, I think after HoI4 PDS should definitely build an EU-Rome sequel, a proper game this time. I am craving hungrily for it since the train wreck that was Rome II Total War turned out so bad.



An EU-Rome game that doesn't have CK focus would be extremely boring.

That smaller map area requires lots of focus on characters, how they interact and how players can influence/completely take over them. In a map of such a small scale, roleplay is important, or else what would the player do once he has conquered the map to his heart's content and built all the buildings? This timeframe would have far more backhanded dealings, assassinations, family ties and tensions, bloodier and interesting politics compared to CK2.

Another reason to include a full-scale CK2 style gameplay is because there are lots and lots of interesting personalities in this era, even more than 1399-1821 timeline. They simply didn't live an idle, dull life as some nation's advisor or general.

And character focus is completely necessary to simulate Rome. Or else Caesar's or Sulla's civil wars would be termed nothing more than "Pretender Rebels" in EU context. Even when Rome became an Empire, the characters and their lives were extremely important (especially in the Italia Province), and there is a need to simulate regiments and entire legions/armies becoming loyal to a commander, for example lots of the western Legions of the Roman Republic had their loyalties lie with Caesar and deserted en-masse to his camp whenever the Optimates commanded them to go against him. Without character focus, playing this game would be bland and boring, which will reduce further customers and the possibility of any sequel.

Not to mention you have political factions in almost all of the nations, which cannot be simulated like Vicky2's parliaments and senates unless the game depicts whole world with huge 19th-century style population. Mediterranean is full of organized governments. You need characters to fill those posts, join factions, participate in the politics or military of their state (and earn prestige and envy of others in the process) or fall from history, participate in assassinations and briberies and court trials, take part in their family affairs in CK2 style (for example two senators have feuding families, clash and compete over the governorship of a province, and then ease tensions by arranging a marriage between both families) and so on. For this you need a character focus.

And this time, I think Paradox should allow us to *play* those characters like in CK2, instead of just watching over their lives as in the old EU-Rome.
Seems to me what you want is The Sims: Rome. I don't care much about families and stuff, when I play CK2 I play the map, how to conquer this and that, how to inherit stuff. I never go "oh, this guy killed that guy and he is the cousin of the nephew of his half-sister!". I only go 'A is heir to duchy B, so marry my son to his daughter'.

When I played EU:Rome (my first Paradox game) I also never cared much about the people, in fact, it was only my 4th playthrough when I actually played as Rome. Didn't like it as much as when I played as Epirus or Egypt. So, if there's a EU:Rome 2 I'd prefer if there was more emphasis on the map, trade, colonization, handling of barbarians, etc.
 
.

That smaller map area requires lots of focus on characters, how they interact and how players can influence/completely take over them. In a map of such a small scale, roleplay is important, or else what would the player do once he has conquered the map to his heart's content and built all the buildings? This timeframe would have far more backhanded dealings, assassinations, family ties and tensions, bloodier and interesting politics compared to CK2.

Another reason to include a full-scale CK2 style gameplay is because there are lots and lots of interesting personalities in this era, even more than 1399-1821 timeline. They simply didn't live an idle, dull life as some nation's advisor or general.

And character focus is completely necessary to simulate Rome. Or else Caesar's or Sulla's civil wars would be termed nothing more than "Pretender Rebels" in EU context. Even when Rome became an Empire, the characters and their lives were extremely important (especially in the Italia Province), and there is a need to simulate regiments and entire legions/armies becoming loyal to a commander, for example lots of the western Legions of the Roman Republic had their loyalties lie with Caesar and deserted en-masse to his camp whenever the Optimates commanded them to go against him. Without character focus, playing this game would be bland and boring, which will reduce further customers and the possibility of any sequel.


And this time, I think Paradox should allow us to *play* those characters like in CK2, instead of just watching over their lives as in the old EU-Rome.

But what would your character be, given that there aren't the feudal-tiered holdings?

And the first Rome did have a civil war system that created factions running autonomous competing states instead of simple rebels. There was also a loyalty to commander mechanic that bound soldiers to their general.
 
Well, I think after HoI4 PDS should definitely build an EU-Rome sequel, a proper game this time. I am craving hungrily for it since the train wreck that was Rome II Total War turned out so bad.

An EU-Rome game .....

let me add that one of the most classic minigames in paradox series is the "building buildings" minigame. historically that were largely initiative of local aristocracy or the ruler in the case of the capital or "royal visits" in that time period. so, a ruler would give presents in the form of mines, trades, latifundias to local friends and they would promote civil buidings to worship the ruler and cultivate their egos.
 
let me add that one of the most classic minigames in paradox series is the "building buildings" minigame. historically that were largely initiative of local aristocracy or the ruler in the case of the capital or "royal visits" in that time period. so, a ruler would give presents in the form of mines, trades, latifundias to local friends and they would promote civil buidings to worship the ruler and cultivate their egos.
I can recommend you actual books on ancient history, just if you want to know how did laoi basiliké or the katoikíai work... :p
In english, french, mordo...ducth and spanish, if you want me to :p
 
I can recommend you actual books on ancient history, just if you want to know how did laoi basiliké or the katoikíai work... :p
In english, french, mordo...ducth and spanish, if you want me to :p

I can recommend you a couple of manuals on roman architecture plus the sessions on that subject from Yale that are online :D
 
I came into this thread completely expecting some very long tirade on Total War Rome 2. This makes alot more sense now
 
I can recommend you a couple of manuals on roman architecture plus the sessions on that subject from Yale that are online :D
I had to read quite a few, my beloved andalusian :p
 
I don't get this fascination with families and clans. It's a game about the Roman Empire. Not the city of Rome and the nearby provinces. It's a military empire we're talking about. If people want a game about Roman families then a sequel of EU: Rome or a new series is not something they should be looking at.
I'm pretty sure that most people who want Rome don't want it to be more like CK than EU. I'm sure there are CK fans who would like a similar game in the Roman era, but it's a totally different genre and it doesn't give you the feeling of controlling the Roman Empire. It does not suit the period of time. And yes, what you're talking about sounds like a city building game based on ancient Rome with a political character. That's not what people see 'Rome 2' as.

Paradox should build upon EU:Rome but without the EU focus and by not adding CK focus. A game set in ancient times (insert potential dates) and presentation of the world as it was at the time. Same way this was proven successful with EU, CK, HoI and Victoria series. So please, no families/clans other than perfecting what EU: Rome already has.
Most people here wants a CK2 styled Roman game.
 
Most people here wants a CK2 styled Roman game.

so "most people here" want Paradox to create an ahistorical Roman game? I'm pretty sure that's why there's a strong modding community.
 
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