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I don't mean making a republic for every nation but a system must be in place in order to avoid a boring game as any power that basically, if realistically made, you would conquer empires by wining 2 or 3 battles. In EU games it's easy due to the atomization of the continent but in ancient world it would make the game extremely uninteresting. Something should be done to deal with Roman power because beating Carthage and take the east one by one it would make the most tedious game ever. If you don't like it family based then think of it as faction based but the player must have fun or the game dies.
If you read smth about the roman empire, you'll see it wasn't peaceful at all. There was a gazillion of revolts each year and invasions. Take a look, during the civil war of the 69 A.D, there was a revolt in Britannia, a Batavian one in Germania and also a celtic one in the Gallia, along with the pretenders and the war against the jewish. That'd be boring for you?
 
If you read smth about the roman empire, you'll see it wasn't peaceful at all. There was a gazillion of revolts each year and invasions. Take a look, during the civil war of the 69 A.D, there was a revolt in Britannia, a Batavian one in Germania and also a celtic one in the Gallia, along with the pretenders and the war against the jewish. That'd be boring for you?

by 69AD you should have discovered america playing with Rome
 
by 69AD you should have discovered america playing with Rome

-Roman 1st and 2nd civil war, not counting the socii wars
-The samnites wars weren't a cakewalk
-Nor was the phyrric war
-And the punic wars... well...
-I'm sure dealing with the pirates in Illyria is just easy
-Yeah, Parthia was a lame foe. They never ever beated the romans
And etc. The game was boring because PDX didn't even care and the mechanics weren't working or were bad choices. The whole characters thing was pointless
 
-Roman 1st and 2nd civil war, not counting the socii wars
-The samnites wars weren't a cakewalk
-Nor was the phyrric war
-And the punic wars... well...
-I'm sure dealing with the pirates in Illyria is just easy
-Yeah, Parthia was a lame foe. They never ever beated the romans
And etc. The game was boring because PDX didn't even care and the mechanics weren't working or were bad choices. The whole characters thing was pointless

you fail to see the point. After the 2nd punic war Rome was kickingasses all over the place. right, it was tough, right it took years, but while others where fighting for surviving Rome's game was a matter of definig goals, managing resources and get spoiled like a true roman ("I will retire to my states where I'll plough my fields and kcuf my slaves, just like old Cincinatus" :p). No rush, just line up and wait for your turn to be given what's yours (pa que te den lo tuyo :D).
I commented not long ago in the "cazando ofertas" threat that a game with no invasion of Rusia is not a complete game. I didn't bother to explain it but the thing is that you need to have a challenge in the game as long as possible otherwise it's like early EU games, you play it only until 1600 when you basically can go anywhere and annex what you want. That is not fun, and that is why EU4 is better than 2 or 3, because it implements mechanics that refrain players to think their are playing Risk. Certainly, overpopulating the map with rebels is not the answer.
 
you fail to see the point. After the 2nd punic war Rome was kickingasses all over the place. right, it was tough, right it took years, but while others where fighting for surviving Rome's game was a matter of definig goals, managing resources and get spoiled like a true roman ("I will retire to my states where I'll plough my fields and kcuf my slaves, just like old Cincinatus" :p). No rush, just line up and wait for your turn to be given what's yours (pa que te den lo tuyo :D).
I commented not long ago in the "cazando ofertas" threat that a game with no invasion of Rusia is not a complete game. I didn't bother to explain it but the thing is that you need to have a challenge in the game as long as possible otherwise it's like early EU games, you play it only until 1600 when you basically can go anywhere and annex what you want. That is not fun, and that is why EU4 is better than 2 or 3, because it implements mechanics that refrain players to think their are playing Risk. Certainly, overpopulating the map with rebels is not the answer.
I don't fail to see the point, I'm saying it shouldn't be easy to just paint the map red, and there were many empires that could face the roman empire and make them suffer. The germanic tribes and the british tribes could barely be pacified and the parthians were always a menace
 
I don't fail to see the point, I'm saying it shouldn't be easy to just paint the map red, and there were many empires that could face the roman empire and make them suffer. The germanic tribes and the british tribes could barely be pacified and the parthians were always a menace

Agree. It just that it worries me that the game will/would become like RTW (with Europa Barbarorum which is the only RTW possible :D) which, although still fun, the game with Rome is not really fun even if you play it, as sometime I do, autoresolving battles and recruiting only proper roman units and a few auxiliaries. At the end of the day it's just a plain case of apilatanquismo, stackofdeath-ism. There is little more (EB2 where are you!!). Ignoring the political game would be to forget a big deal of the gears that built the ancient world.
 
you fail to see the point. After the 2nd punic war Rome was kickingasses all over the place. right, it was tough, right it took years, but while others where fighting for surviving Rome's game was a matter of definig goals, managing resources and get spoiled like a true roman ("I will retire to my states where I'll plough my fields and kcuf my slaves, just like old Cincinatus" :p). No rush, just line up and wait for your turn to be given what's yours (pa que te den lo tuyo :D).
I commented not long ago in the "cazando ofertas" threat that a game with no invasion of Rusia is not a complete game. I didn't bother to explain it but the thing is that you need to have a challenge in the game as long as possible otherwise it's like early EU games, you play it only until 1600 when you basically can go anywhere and annex what you want. That is not fun, and that is why EU4 is better than 2 or 3, because it implements mechanics that refrain players to think their are playing Risk. Certainly, overpopulating the map with rebels is not the answer.


Who is your Russia in a hypothetical Rome 2?
 
Who is your Russia in a hypothetical Rome 2?

if you play Rome as an EU game with historical results, after Carthage, ... no one really. that's my point. :)
 
if you play Rome as an EU game with historical results, after Carthage, ... no one really. that's my point. :)
Parthia? jijiji
 
That's what I was thinking-though once you'd done that, I'm not sure what would happen next. Unless you think of Parthia as the Final Boss or so.
Germanic invasions, constant rebellions and pretenders... China might have something to say, the empire would be too big...
The problem was the really bad game made by PDX and the faulty non-historical at all features they added.
 
Parthia? jijiji

Parthia was never that. Parthia was an enemy too far to care much. Parthia was more like an annoyance (ask Crasus :p). Sometimes legions were going there, sometimes they were paying a visit to Syria, most of the time there was nothing happening. I do not see Parthia as a challenge but more a case like Germany, you send Varus to get it but if the campaign fails you don't really care. an unprofitable province is not a strong casus belli.
 
Parthia was never that. Parthia was an enemy too far to care much. Parthia was more like an annoyance (ask Crasus :p). Sometimes legions were going there, sometimes they were paying a visit to Syria, most of the time there was nothing happening. I do not see Parthia as a challenge but more a case like Germany, you send Varus to get it but if the campaign fails you don't really care. an unprofitable province is not a strong casus belli.
That's not true. Many emperors died fighting Parthia and they had a serious obsession with them and later, with the Sassanids. Don't trust the roman propaganda...
 
That's not true. Many emperors died fighting Parthia and they had a serious obsession with them and later, with the Sassanids. Don't trust the roman propaganda...

but that was during the empire, the late empire, IIC crisis and after I think, correct me if I am wrong. by the IC there was no serious contender in the continent. Germanic tribes cannot be called that. They were not conquered because, unlike Britain for instance, they had no resources, mines, to support political attention. Rome had it's defeats in all western europe and still they conquered when there was a penny for a senator to grab. Germany was not that case.
 
but that was during the empire, the late empire, IIC crisis and after I think, correct me if I am wrong. by the IC there was no serious contender in the continent. Germanic tribes cannot be called that. They were not conquered because, unlike Britain for instance, they had no resources, mines, to support political attention. Rome had it's defeats in all western europe and still they conquered when there was a penny for a senator to grab. Germany was not that case.
They feared the germans. They never ever wanted them to unite and they usually killed strong leaders. Dacia was another problem, and once they were under a strong leadership, they just had to be defeated.
Parthia was an annoyance since the middle republic. They paid Pontus and Armenia just to annoy Rome, and they didn't hesitate to try to grab Syria after the assesination of Caesar.
 
but that was during the empire, the late empire, IIC crisis and after I think, correct me if I am wrong. by the IC there was no serious contender in the continent. Germanic tribes cannot be called that. They were not conquered because, unlike Britain for instance, they had no resources, mines, to support political attention. Rome had it's defeats in all western europe and still they conquered when there was a penny for a senator to grab. Germany was not that case.

'Germania' lacked infrastructure, it was mostly swamps and forests. Romans could use no technological advantage over the 'savages' of Germania. And iirc the Germanic tribes had vast amounts of manpower compared to Rome and I wouldn't rule out female presence in their military either. There is no actual data for the most part of this.
 
'Germania' lacked infrastructure, it was mostly swamps and forests. Romans could use no technological advantage over the 'savages' of Germania. And iirc the Germanic tribes had vast amounts of manpower compared to Rome and I wouldn't rule out female presence in their military either. There is no actual data for the most part of this.
That's BS. A roman historian (Tacito, I don't care about the english name :p) thought that the women who followed the army took part in the fight.
Also, the roman military wasn't that superior if the conditions weren't 100% in his favour.
 
'Germania' lacked infrastructure, it was mostly swamps and forests. Romans could use no technological advantage over the 'savages' of Germania. And iirc the Germanic tribes had vast amounts of manpower compared to Rome and I wouldn't rule out female presence in their military either. There is no actual data for the most part of this.

well, you may say that very few places in europe had infrastruture at all :D
I think it's just a matter of profitability. There was no forecast of benefits to support an invasion, just the strategic vision of moving the limit to west for convinience backed by Augustus who was the guy paying the bill. in terms of population certainly Rome had more stock than germania several times.

Anyhow, just put it in EU terms, if you control half of europe it would take you 2 hours of playing before abandoning the game. OTOH, in CK2 playing as Bizantium you struggle all the time if you are not careful. I do not mean that CK2 must be the model but the sort of troubles that you find when ruling must more like that style and not make a game that is all about building legions and crushing naked people. if there is not going to be a balanced group of oponents there is no point in following that design and other aspects must be introduced.
 
Germanic invasions, constant rebellions and pretenders... China might have something to say, the empire would be too big...
The problem was the really bad game made by PDX and the faulty non-historical at all features they added.

China? Well, maybe after Rome took down the Parthians. Why not?
 
That's BS. A roman historian (Tacito, I don't care about the english name :p) thought that the women who followed the army took part in the fight.
Also, the roman military wasn't that superior if the conditions weren't 100% in his favour.

so you're enhancing my point by initially calling it bs? :D
 
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