That's nonsense; while Paradox is by no means obligated to produce a sequel, neither are we morally beholden to a notion to engage in loyalty gestures.
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That's nonsense; while Paradox is by no means obligated to produce a sequel, neither are we morally beholden to a notion to engage in loyalty gestures.
come on, mate, dont over-reactyou mean to say "if you dont make the game I dream of I´ll sue you, Paradox"
I think there no need to go with such a hard lines. if paradox claim us to put our money where our mouth is, they should provide a good concept at least. true that the new engine is a wonder and looking at CK2 and the soon to come EU4 we could expect a quality product but a game concept is much more than the engine. Paradox, give us something! a nice logo, some cool ideas, or even a weird musical!
I'm not going to take anyone to court, but if I pre-order game from Steam I have certain rights as a customer and I can take the issues to local consumer agency, but because crowd funding is considered illegal I'm not certain what my legal position would be in case of trouble.
And like I said the fact that they haven't even finished VV patch yet, doesn't exactly encourage to make pre-order at this point of production. Besides is there any guarantee that they won't just abandon it almost immeaditely after it's release, like they did with Sengoku, if they already made the profit with the pre-orders.
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I guess one can't deny that there's a tension between people wanting info on a game before committing money and the company wanting to gauge interest before committing to a project. Yes, Kickstarters usually have more data upon which to base whether or not to pledge rather than, well, nothing.
However, Paradox isn't a new developer. They pretty much stick to a very specific type of game and implementation. What exactly can they offer you which won't be something like: "Its in the vein of the games we've been making recently, but also based on the ideas introduced in the first Rome", do you want to know the intricacies of the infamy system or something before you commit?
Call me trusting, but I don't see the difference between producing a flashy title and some vague pre-Alpha promises and just saying "We are Paradox, you know us, and we will be making Rome 2".
I'd say this even might be different if it was any other game, but the taint that surrounds Rome I means that a show of faith will be necessary on behalf of the company or the consumer.
However, Paradox isn't a new developer. They pretty much stick to a very specific type of game and implementation. What exactly can they offer you which won't be something like: "Its in the vein of the games we've been making recently, but also based on the ideas introduced in the first Rome", do you want to know the intricacies of the infamy system or something before you commit?
Call me trusting, but I don't see the difference between producing a flashy title and some vague pre-Alpha promises and just saying "We are Paradox, you know us, and we will be making Rome 2".
I'd say this even might be different if it was any other game, but the taint that surrounds Rome I means that a show of faith will be necessary on behalf of the company or the consumer.
I'm not so sure it was the time period of the game, as much as the time period of release. I looked at the time line of paradox game releases, and man, from 2008, to 2010 there was frankly an oversaturation, with EU3, Victoria 2, HOI3, and EU: Rome just seemed to not get the same kind of relentless work done to it as the others. I mean look at the mess EU3 was at the beginning, then after 4 more exansions much improved. . Same with HOI3, and ViC 2. Rome didn't get that allowance to evolve, and frankly, I don't think it seems to have ever gotten a coherent feel. They were experiementing, it seems with what they could do with the engine, but it never came together. They never quite decided if it was an EU game or a CK game. Now with CK2, I think Rome could take that style of combined relational dynamics and the better combat, and make a Rome game from it that would work. Heck the maps already there. But hey, what do I know. I just wish they would tell people what's going on with Rome 1, patch or offically shelved.
Well they said in the Ask Paradox Anything video that they would make the game with kickstarter if enough people would pledge to preorder the game.
I'd like to at least see a description, some drawings, etc. I might consider it then. You know, just to see what they have in mind at least.
We didn't promise a kickstarter. What I said was that we were toying around with the idea. IF one was to be made we'd obviously not just throw a logo up there but actually tell you what the game would be and feature.
Honestly it comes from the fact that those of you who want Rome 2 are very vocal - but our, my, guess is that you are few. A potential Kickstarter would be a way for you to put your money where your mouth is. We do not need money to fund it nor are we asking for it. This would potentially be a way for you to show us that there's strength in numbers besides signing a petition like this.
The reason why PDS isn't doing Rome 2 isn't because they don't like the series or think there's a potential in a sequel - it's that the things they're working on now are more fun/exciting for them. There are after all a limited number of developers available.
/shams
Honestly it comes from the fact that those of you who want Rome 2 are very vocal - but our, my, guess is that you are few. A potential Kickstarter would be a way for you to put your money where your mouth is. We do not need money to fund it nor are we asking for it. This would potentially be a way for you to show us that there's strength in numbers besides signing a petition like this.
The reason why PDS isn't doing Rome 2 isn't because they don't like the series or think there's a potential in a sequel - it's that the things they're working on now are more fun/exciting for them. There are after all a limited number of developers available.
/shams
Give a description, and if I like it, I will pledge the going rate of a new game.
I direct your attention to the following: The UBIQUITOUS "Restore the Roman empire" mods/AARs/questions/requests/demands/screenshots that are done all over the community in EVERY SINGLE Paradox game.
Your move.
The problem with Rome 1 was that it's very, very shallow and your actions don't have many consequences and the game has zero depth. The Epigoni mod made it enjoyable and I spent over a week playing it.
Rome is like Sengoku and MotE, a game made with too small a budget, and rushed to finish.
I'd say if Paradox doesn't have enough employees, focus on a single game at a time.
Rome is like Sengoku and MotE, a game made with too small a budget, and rushed to finish.
I'd say if Paradox doesn't have enough employees, focus on a single game at a time.
That makes sense. But if the reason they are not working on Rome 2 is because of personal preferences, why the kickstarter idea?
Personally I would pre-order instantly, if they would give guarantee that it will be patched and won't be abandoned when the patch is in beta stage. While I'm happy because of the attention which Paradox is giving to CKII and probably will give to EUIV, I'm very unhappy at the same time, because Rome is in unplayable stage. I recently bought Sengoku and March of the Eagles from sale and neither of these game doesn't seem to get any attention either (which is the reason why I bought them from sale and didn't pay the full price). I won't pre-order anything if the Rome2 is abandoned soon after it is published. However if they promise to give it a decent amount of support and patching, then I could pre-order Collector's edition. (Note: I use term pre-order as I don't trust to kickstarters and such, because those are illegal in my country)
Thanks very much, Shams, that was a very illuminating and candid answer. I will say, if you're going to do a Kickstarter (and that's a big if, I know), please make sure there is a way for people to use Paypal to donate as well, since many of us (obviously) don't live in the US and it's difficult to use Kickstarter directly.
The reason why PDS isn't doing Rome 2 isn't because they don't like the series or think there's a potential in a sequel - it's that the things they're working on now are more fun/exciting for them. There are after all a limited number of developers available.
/shams[/QUOTE] Well, that tells me everything there, Shams. Thank you. Its not about what the customer is asking for, as much as what the developers/ producers feel is more interesting to them. Therefore, you make the game you want, and if it sells, nice, but if it doesn't, oh well, on to the next interesting project. Hey, if that's your business/ development model, I think that's fine, but that's just not what people are expecting. But your description helps me know that its more of a personal interest model for you. It's your passion, your interest, and you connect with the niche that shares that.
However, I think paradox does customers a disservice when a game is left behind to make a new game (Rome is still in a beta patch for instance since December, and the reasoning is always given that the person doing patches is working on a new project, and will get to that ASAP.) While your company may have fun and interests, you still need to listen to your customers and not ignore the fact that they paid for these games. Respect is important too, we are not (mostly) little children who just need to accept what we are told.
/shams[/QUOTE] Well, that tells me everything there, Shams. Thank you. Its not about what the customer is asking for, as much as what the developers/ producers feel is more interesting to them. Therefore, you make the game you want, and if it sells, nice, but if it doesn't, oh well, on to the next interesting project. Hey, if that's your business/ development model, I think that's fine, but that's just not what people are expecting. But your description helps me know that its more of a personal interest model for you. It's your passion, your interest, and you connect with the niche that shares that.
However, I think paradox does customers a disservice when a game is left behind to make a new game (Rome is still in a beta patch for instance since December, and the reasoning is always given that the person doing patches is working on a new project, and will get to that ASAP.) While your company may have fun and interests, you still need to listen to your customers and not ignore the fact that they paid for these games. Respect is important too, we are not (mostly) little children who just need to accept what we are told.
I think Shams said that he doubts that we are many. well, I don't know really. In fact I don't know now what Paradox expects to make a decision. He said this is not a kickstarter proposal, there is no poll, I don't know how they are measuring it. they may be right, no idea. In fact I think it's just fear. The made a bad game with EU:rome and they are not sure that they can regain the demand in a sequel. I can understand that, this is no rant, no claim, no complain.
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