Stop the stat hoarding and exploiting....HIDE THE STATS!

[AllThat4Nothing]

Sorry, apparently that was sarcasm failure on my part. Notice how I started with almost reasonable things and then ramped up to ridiculous stuff?

lol ok, good one, I can see that being the case. Sorry, you got ot understand, there's so many posts about people whining for such silly things that sometimes it's hard to seperate sarcasm from truth lol. You got on over on me though.

[thegerman2008]

...on the exploiting bit, I think they adjusted matrilineal marriages to stop people stealing all the best courtiers in the 1.03 patch (though I can't be sure... not having the 'gamey' trait myself)

this guys right. Its hard to get matrilineal marraiges anyway, and the other rulers say "no can do" if you try to poach their good courtiers.

[AllThat4Nothing]

He was being sarcastic.

oh was he now. thanks, I never would have known if you didn't tell me.

[thegerman2008]

Maybe I'm just an amateur at CKII-genetics, but so far I haven't been able to create a godlike dynasty. For every great king, there has been a mediocre one.

Not to mention several heirs who were subtly "removed".

and i'm still stuck with advisors that have stats between 16-21. Havent seen any that are higher than 22.

the only ones i have seen are ones which you cant actually choose to be advisors for one reason or another.

[DeadlyGrim]

lol ok, good one, I can see that being the case. Sorry, you got ot understand, there's so many posts about people whining for such silly things that sometimes it's hard to seperate sarcasm from truth lol. You got on over on me though.

Yeah, I think we've reached the point where there's nothing so ridiculous that people won't suggest it seriously.

[Hidden Legend]

TW series are different games entirely based on an entirely different system. There is no comparison.

Here's an easy solution for people whining that seeing the numbers ruins the "immersion":

simply ignore them.

paradox designed the game based in certain priniciples the majority of their fanbase have found popular for years, and that includes seeing numbers. not everyone is going to agree of course, but, unfortunately for them, they are outnumbered.

I know it is a different company and an old game. Im not screeming on the roof tops for it. i just think its a fun option like in football manager hide player stats. You have to scout them first. Like have an envoy in a court to find out information. Unless you are telling me that we already have one in every court and so does everyone else but no one mentions these people the most skilled advisors in the game as they have 30 intrigue.

I generaly dont mind and am happy with the game. Only needs a couple of tweeks really regarding searches. I.E is a Council member yes/no/any option on the list and is an heir/heiress yes/no/any option then I will be happy.

[StoweMobile]

This tread is an interesting idea, but not very practical. Especially since the AI can "stat horde" as well I don't really see it as a balance issue personally

[Rakenshi1243]

I like the idea, but for the wrong reasons.

Human beings don't walk around with stats that represent skills/abilities. It would make the game even more immersive, which is great.

[Finzi]

This is crazy talk, Paradox games have always had plenty of data available to them and that's one of the main appeals to playing them for people like me. You can actually plan and execute your strategy around the known data. There's already enough randomness in the game with assassinations, plots and the like without adding the randomness of having to guess the stats of your advisors and rulers.

[zultor]

I would like to see it changed similarly to the OP where there is an actual decision to make regarding your council. Now it seems like you simply click the sort button and pick the top person. I think the problem isn't that you see numbers but that there is only one number. Each position should have multiple numbers (similar to traits) so you have a chancellor who is better at claims vs. one better at assassinations vs. one better at plots, etc.

[CoffeeKings]

I would like to see it changed similarly to the OP where there is an actual decision to make regarding your council. Now it seems like you simply click the sort button and pick the top person. I think the problem isn't that you see numbers but that there is only one number. Each position should have multiple numbers (similar to traits) so you have a chancellor who is better at claims vs. one better at assassinations vs. one better at plots, etc.

wouldn't this just lead to a new form of stat hoarding?

EDIT: Chancellor's assassinate?

[AllThat4Nothing]

I like the idea, but for the wrong reasons.

Human beings don't walk around with stats that represent skills/abilities. It would make the game even more immersive, which is great.

there's a point where a game is TOO immersive as to become no longer enjoyable.

[N Katsyev]

I have to say, I rather like the idea of giving broad descriptions of the character's abilities as opposed to exact stats. More emotion based choices and less numbers based, it won't happen I don't think, but a cool idea anyway.

[Arcanum]

It could be just me, but isn't the fact that every council members job is based on percentages already enough of a mixer? Having a Marshal with a skill of 20 doesn't guarantee that he'll be a better marshal, it simply means that you and your close advisors consider him to be at the top. You can't really know whether you'd have gotten more than the 2 technologies he's brought you with the marshal with 15 martial skill.

The chances are maximized, but chances are just that. You may have been lucky under a marshal with a skill of 4 as well and gained the same amount.

Not showing stats but sentences would simply mean you'd "hoard" people with sentences that sound good, ultimately leading to the exact same thing, just on a different scale :S

[Hidden Legend]

Not showing stats but sentences would simply mean you'd "hoard" people with sentences that sound good, ultimately leading to the exact same thing, just on a different scale :S

Medieval job interview.

Why do you think you would make a good Chancellor?

Well Im a people person and a good team player. I have neat handwriting and can scrawl 60 parchments a week. I am also a natural leader its all about the how the clerics behave and work for you. You place your faith in me and I place my faith in god and my abilities. You can say Im gregarious but I just like talking to people your maj. Im the man for you.

Hmm well you will be hearing from my Diocess Bishop very soon.

[MasterofMagic]

I have to say, I rather like the idea of giving broad descriptions of the character's abilities as opposed to exact stats. More emotion based choices and less numbers based, it won't happen I don't think, but a cool idea anyway.

Thank you I'm glad some appreciate a good IDEA.

[Subterranean]

The problem is it would end up sort of like those old interactive film type games that were all the rage in the 90's. 'Soandso wants soandso2 imprisoned what do you say?' with no idea who either of them are and no way to look them up.

Also if you are certain its a "good IDEA" (whats with all the shouting) why are you posting it here and not in the mods section, apart from that its obviously not a good idea.

[AllThat4Nothing]

The problem is it would end up sort of like those old interactive film type games that were all the rage in the 90's. 'Soandso wants soandso2 imprisoned what do you say?' with no idea who either of them are and no way to look them up.

Also if you are certain its a "good IDEA" (whats with all the shouting) why are you posting it here and not in the mods section, apart from that its obviously not a good idea.

zing!

[(FIN)Notsk]

Thank you! I've been wanting to start this thread for a while now. Honestly, the only things that matter here are realism and believability. Information can be bad if it is realistically unavailable to your character. Those arguing otherwise may as well permanently lift the fog of war and automatically know of every plot attempted in the game. Simply put, anything which gives the player immersion and makes him behave like a true medieval lord is good while anything which continues to make him feel/behave like a guy playing a game is unacceptable. Knowing everything about a character thousands of miles away displayed as a simplistic number system clearly falls into the latter category.

What is realstic is reputation. People have reputations to give others an idea of what they're good and bad at, and secrets, such as certain genetic traits. There is no question that, in the name of believability, stats need to be replaced with sentences covering a small range of numbers. If you're not particularly bright, what would you expect people to say: "He's a bit slow," or "he's clearly got an intelligence level of 3?"

Traits ought also to be more hidden, considered on a one-by-one basis. There's no way to hide your lisp from those around you, so it should be displayed for the world to see - it's a part of your reputation. You're known as a great theologian, so this trait would naturally be made visible, but quite a lot of personal traits, particularly things like deadly sins or homosexuality which could be practiced in secret, should only become available for all to see if caught doing something and unable to stop the rumours.

There is only one number I can think off-hand which should always be available to the player: His own treasury, and perhaps even that should be approximated unless he has the "greedy" trait and is always counting it.

I completly agree. This would make the game far more realistic and enjoyable.

Having a tab that shows what the player character thinks of different people would be realistic and awesome. For example if you are looking for a wife you would look for a person whom you think are "always horny" and "pretty intelligent" rather than "She always makes a fool out of herself". The farther away the person is the less you know about them and the closer they are the more you know about them. At least for me this would make for an exciting game.

I don't understand people who are complaining that immersion makes for a poorer game. It only depends on how it is implemented.

[Aulus]

I don't understand all the comparisons with other Paradox games here. In EU3, V2 and HoI3 you are playing as the invisible force behind a nation. In CK2, you are an individual human being with all the disadvantages that come with not being a god. To preserve realism, this must be considered in every bit of information available to the player. If your medieval character would not have access to it, nor should the player. If the player has access to it, it must be justifiable by some story of how the character might have been able to acquire it.

The problem is that the information available in the game right now would require a network of agents which would put RL Byzantium to shame and is simply not believable.

EDIT:

[cut] I don't understand people who are complaining that immersion makes for a poorer game. It only depends on how it is implemented.

Your example of finding a wife is exactly what I was talking about, and it would make for a much more believable, immersive experience.

I think that a lot of the argument here comes from gamers who don't actually want to be immersed or experience the true decisions which had to be made by rulers - often based on a lack of information rather than an abundance of it.