What are the requirements for making a king title? In my current game I am Duke of Burgundy, part of France. I hold the Duchies of Gallilee, Tripoli, Antioch, Ascalon and Jerusalem and all but 3 provinces that are de jure part of the Kingdom of Jerusalem. Still I don't get the option to create or usurp the title. What am I missing? Do I need to be independent to create a King title?
Thanks for any insight.
Are you actually part of the kingdom of france or are you just an elector, but independent?
As Britanny, independent, I was able to create the kingdom of portugal after I took 50%+ of it's de jure counties.
I'd assume you can't create the kingdom if you're part of another kingdom as then you couldn't be your current king's vassal anymore.
Not sure though.
Creating kingdom titles requires piety, doesn't it? Maybe that's the problem?
I seem to remember a very prominent example of just this sort of thing happening in history (and some games), though.Originally Posted by Surray
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Try moving your capital to Jerusalem. Then you'll be able to create the kingdom!
You need to be independent from any kingdoms to create king tittles, but if you are under an empire you can create them. The limitation is that you can't create a tittle that is the same tier as your liege. So only way to you to become king is to declare independence.
Can my antipope excommunicate the king of France or do I need the real Pope to do that?
I'm planning my escape from France now, LOL
If King of France is not supporting that anti-pope then no he can't. You need the real pope to do it and he most likely will not if you have an anti-pope.Can my antipope excommunicate the king of France or do I need the real Pope to do that?
I'm planning my escape from France now, LOL
If I get rid of my holdings in France proper and declare independence he has to come to me to get warscore right?
Game mechanics are feeling pretty clunky if I have to declare a war against my homeland to establish a crusader kingdom.
This is one thing that doesn't make sense to me in CK2. If William is able to become king while the French king only gets claims on Normandy then Burgundy should be able to create Jerusalem. If you wait too long the king of France will create the title for himself and there is no way for your dynasty to ever recover all that prestige.
With William, it's the result of the CB that's used. If there was already a king of Jerusalem and you invaded him with the CB, then you'd get the title and become independent.
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But it seems kind of an arbitrary distinction. If you gain a kingdom in war or inheritance you get to keep it, but when you get enough land to usurp or create it, it is not allowed unless you are independent. After all William did not have to fight France to gain his independence before he pressed his claim on England.
It all comes down to the fact that kings can't be vassals to kings.
William had a claim to being king, and pushed that claim, and won it. So it's like if you inherited a King Title. Same thing happens if you are a duke and inherit a King Title straight up (rather than a claim), that does make you independent. You ARE a king then. Your liege can't say you aren't, as you are the legitimate heir to an existing and recognized kingdom.
On the other hand, if you are just a duke and want to create a kingdom, your liege can say "Um no, you're not a king, you're a duke and still my vassal, who has ever heard of that kingdom anyways?" Why would your king let you free if you have an excuse not to?
Think of it like this. You can only usurp or create a kingdom because you have the power to do so and nobody can stop you. If you have somebody more powerful than you, they wouldn't let you do it.
There should be a mechanism for declaring the independence of Crusader states.
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Agreed, and TBH not really sure how that is lacking because it should be obvious that outcomes close to events that actually happened should be possible in game and mechanisms provided for same. At this point I am wondering if anyone could help me find which line in the save game controls who my liege is and what I change it to to make myself independent. Is it "employer=x"? Help much appreciated.
Sidenote: I posted this late last night for me and had to hunt it down on page 3 or 4 of the forum. Man this place is jumping... haven't read how many units they moved but it must have done OK?
What you are saying doesn't really make any sense, since we know that the Kingdom of Jerusalem was indeed formed by Frankish crusader nobles who did so without going to war with France in order to become part of an independent Kingdom in the lands they conquered.
If, as a county who is vassal to a duchy, you conquer enough land to form a new duchy, declare independence. Right after declaring, form the duchy. The independence war ends immediately in a white peace, and you are no longer a vassal to your old duke, instead holding the new duchy under your king. I would assume that this would work the same way when forming a new kingdom. Declare independence, form the kingdom, and your independence war with your old king should end. You will have lowered relations with your former liege though.
I will load an old save and see if your idea holds true. I don't believe I had the option to even form the kingdom while the war was on.
What I actually ended up doing was Editing my saved game by main title at the time "d_ascalon" and changing the liege line to myself.
However it would be nice if crusader states had the opportunity through events to divest themselves of their lands in their former liege's dejure kingdom and become independent.
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