Paradox next title should be proper multiplayer.

[raw]

So, you're comparing Blizzard,

No, I am comparing PI's traditionally horrible MP with what we have today. I wish they would take the time and update their 12 year old multiplayer and add hot-drop. That would be so awesome, I'd be willing to pay expac prize for it.

[Keanon]

Both Kluska and Raw has a point here, it IS old and could use a revamp, but to compare it to SC2 is not justified in any way. Can you just pop open the folders and change every major thing about SC2? Can you even mod it outside their Map Creator?

[Straigthtsilver]

I agree with OP, Paradox desperately needs to update the multiplayer system. I know 3 people within my circle of friends who are willing to buy CK2, but are turned off by the fact that getting the multiplayer to work is a Herculean feat.

[Letar]

Why does the checksum have to change when quitting out of a single player game though? How does that prevent cheating?

That forces you to restart and eliminates some out-of-sync issues.

[raw]

Oh and a friendlist. My Kingdom for a friendlist.

[viruscarrier]

That forces you to restart and eliminates some out-of-sync issues.

Yes, but why?
Why does this game out of pretty much any other online RTS require this to avoid OSS? It's never happened to me in, say, Creative Assembly's Total War series (Technically turn based for the map, but the battles are real time), or RUSE for that matter.

[Salt]

I agree, I feel like I'm in 1997 every time I try it. CK2 multiplayer seems to work somewhat decently, I suppose. On the whole its been a massive weak point of the paradox titles.

[elderbre@ya.com]

Sadly I have to agree and too many people on the thread are trying to find excuses for what's obvious. Good design is good design and bad design is bad design, it's not more complicated than that. Paradox games have a ton of great things about them, multiplayer isn't one of them.

And although comparing Starcraft 2 with CKII might look overboard, it isn't, it doesn't have to be flashy, just work. If you don't find that valid,t here are many games from the 90's that worked very well in multiplayer (Starcraft 1 for starters, Myth which was probably around the same cost), and CKII is from 2012.

[raw]

Sadly I have to agree and too many people on the thread are trying to find excuses for what's obvious. Good design is good design and bad design is bad design, it's not more complicated than that. Paradox games have a ton of great things about them, multiplayer isn't one of them.

And although comparing Starcraft 2 with CKII might look overboard, it isn't, it doesn't have to be flashy, just work. If you don't find that valid,t here are many games from the 90's that worked very well in multiplayer (Starcraft 1 for starters, Myth which was probably around the same cost), and CKII is from 2012.

Sure it's alot of work but it's a one time job and it's really needed.

[Kluska]

Sadly I have to agree and too many people on the thread are trying to find excuses for what's obvious. Good design is good design and bad design is bad design, it's not more complicated than that. Paradox games have a ton of great things about them, multiplayer isn't one of them.

And although comparing Starcraft 2 with CKII might look overboard, it isn't, it doesn't have to be flashy, just work. If you don't find that valid,t here are many games from the 90's that worked very well in multiplayer (Starcraft 1 for starters, Myth which was probably around the same cost), and CKII is from 2012.

I'm not denying that Paradox does need to improve their multiplayer service, but when comparing both companies in terms of resources, it is a little ludicrous

[Mattabesta]

when i launch sc2 i click one button and i am in the game

That's unfair SC2 only has liek 8 players while EU3 usually has like 9.

[Korean]

So, you're comparing Blizzard, a vastly huge American developer with over 4,600 employees in its employ who produce well-known games which sell in ridiculous amounts of copies to the mainstream, to Paradox Interactive, a small (but budding) developer from Sweden who produce more complex games - of an almost unknown genre in comparison to Blizzard's own collection - and are limited in their resources of what they can provide for their games.

Something seems off.

Terraria 2 people.
Minecraft Alpha 1 man.
Bullfrog.

This might be quite off topic but there's nothing worse than fanboys (not you especially) who runs to save a game from the critique. A game needs feedback in order to evolve plus I think that Paradox might need to listen to the community when it comes to the UI as well as the mulitplayer aspect (even thou I haven't played multiplayer) since it attracts more people to buying the game.

I also agree with the OP, it's not /that/ hard to create a working and yet effective lobby these days? Every multiplayer game has it as a standard, except for EA Orgins, they tend to destroy everything they touch. While playing a historical game the one thing we should learn is that getting stuck in the past can be dreadful when it comes to the survival of it own existence.

[Kluska]

Terraria 2 people.
Minecraft Alpha 1 man.
Bullfrog.

This might be quite off topic but there's nothing worse than fanboys (not you especially) who runs to save a game from the critique. A game needs feedback in order to evolve plus I think that Paradox might need to listen to the community when it comes to the UI as well as the mulitplayer aspect (even thou I haven't played multiplayer) since it attracts more people to buying the game.

I also agree with the OP, it's not /that/ hard to create a working and yet effective lobby these days? Every multiplayer game has it as a standard, except for EA Orgins, they tend to destroy everything they touch. While playing a historical game the one thing we should learn is that getting stuck in the past can be dreadful when it comes to the survival of it own existence.

Fanboy?

I am no fanboy, look at the icons underneath my avatar. I played two in-house Paradox Interactive games (and one published by Paradox). Two. Good sir, I am nowhere near the level of fanboy. Besides, I refer you to my latest post:

"I'm not denying that Paradox does need to improve their multiplayer service, but when comparing both companies in terms of resources, it is a little ludicrous"

There are a multitude of examples which showcase the progression of multiplayer service quality in the gaming realm. As previously stated, I am not denying that the service of Paradox MP is not astounding, I was simply stating that the OP's only comparison of Blizzard and Paradox was a tidbit absurd.

[geldalin]

It's not hard to write good netcode, yes it will still take work; Paradox is also a company, everything they do is going to be work. It is work well worth doing, so I agree they should look at this issue seriously in their next title.

The netcode just seems really sloppy. I don't know what the source code looks like for any Paradox games. But the way the whole MP system is setup feels like it would be acceptable in 1997 not 2012. Why do games go OOS there really is no excuse for this, you gotta fix this before you make another game, Age of Empires II doesnt go out of sync that came out in 1999.

Sit down with your developers and seriously tackle this problem, look at the code and seriously consider scrapping it entirely if its unreadable and old; if you can rewrite it a better way rewrite it; go back to the drawing boards on syncing games because your current solution for keeping games in sync isn't working right.

[Korean]

There are a multitude of examples which showcase the progression of multiplayer service quality in the gaming realm. As previously stated, I am not denying that the service of Paradox MP is not astounding, I was simply stating that the OP's only comparison of Blizzard and Paradox was a tidbit absurd.

I wrote "not you especially", thought it would be clear enough for everyone to understand that I meant fanboys in general, not you, especially. I also wanted to point out that there's smaller companies that have been able to provide a better multiplayer service tracking back to the old 56KB/s era with less manpower than Paradox, plus Paradox got a pretty sweet MPsystem in Mount And Blade so correct me if I'm wrong but shouldn't a higher standard be in place? I haven't yet had the time to try out the multiplayer but if it was quick and less painful than I've heard I might be able to do so.

[Kluska]

I wrote "not you especially", thought it would be clear enough for everyone to understand that I meant fanboys in general, not you, especially. I also wanted to point out that there's smaller companies that have been able to provide a better multiplayer service tracking back to the old 56KB/s era with less manpower than Paradox, plus Paradox got a pretty sweet MPsystem in Mount And Blade so correct me if I'm wrong but shouldn't a higher standard be in place? I haven't yet had the time to try out the multiplayer but if it was quick and less painful than I've heard I might be able to do so.

Ah. Forgive me. I mistakenly thought you were being sarcastic. My apologies.

Also, that is TaleWorlds Entertainment who maintain that MP service. Not Paradox themselves. They simply published M&B.

[Rob de Hard]

no offense to the op but thats dumb. paradox are a business and these games do not lend themselves to multiplayer.

[Wowwars]

when i launch sc2 i click one button and i am in the game

Screw off sc2 is bad , Warcraft 3 however does it perfect it has a kick/open/close slot and cancel/end. with lobbies and clans! do you have that? no i thought so.

[flame7926]

Those games you can play multiplayer to just join play 30 minutes, and leave. In this game, you play a game for months. Its not quite the same.

[raw]

Those games you can play multiplayer to just join play 30 minutes, and leave. In this game, you play a game for months. Its not quite the same.

games that are more like grand strategy games in terms of gameplay and -time still have better multiplayer and (especially) hot-drop!

For example, from Star Ruler an indy 4x RTS game that can easily last hours or even days:

Match your strategy against up to 10 other opponents (online or LAN-linked). Save the game when dawn breaks and boot it back up at dusk. It isn't over until you say it is! Drop in and drop out at any point; disconnecting players will not disrupt the game!