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Thread: Add China to your SOI - Crash your industry?

  1. #1

    Add China to your SOI - Crash your industry?

    I've recently added China to my SOI in an MP Germany game and apparently it crashes my industry that they're no longer profitable. Is it something to do with the flood of cheap goods coming from Chinese artisans given their massive population? It also seems to have made the industries of other great powers grossly unprofitable as well.

  2. #2
    Game imitating real life. Go Wal-Mart!

  3. #3
    Captain Rhyus's Avatar
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    I thought that POP's bought your own products first then from your SOI and then the world market

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    Captain MaxRiga's Avatar

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    yeah, I was trying to discuss it already in another thread but I didn't get any good answer - http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...e-of-Influence

    In my opinion it's just a bug. There is no any logical explanation why it's happening. In fact I've notice that it's not any profitable to get any country in your SOI. But it's just not so painful ( and visible ) for your budget if you get small countries into your SOI. For example if you get Sweden into Russian SOI. But still, what is the logic of SOI if your economy goes down but not up for it?

  5. #5
    I suppose for diplomatic factors, so you have allies that will join your wars for sure, but I agree, having China as a SOI shouldn't tank your industry because of cheap inputs.

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    Given the era, it should skyrocket your industry by increasing the availability of resources for your factories, and also providing a huge market to sell their goods.
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  7. #7
    Captain MaxRiga's Avatar

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    GamezRule
    right, that the point and this how it was in vanilla. I'm playing 2.2 beta patch now and it's still not fixed. Me as Russia no need to influence anyone for any alliances. I'm fine. I don't wanna destroy my income for useless SOI.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Syntax Error View Post
    having China as a SOI shouldn't tank your industry because of cheap inputs.
    Unless I misunderstand something, every good of a certain type costs the same. Cloth from Britain is the same as cloth from China or anywhere else. As far as markets are concerned, they're all jumbled together, or something.

    So, is what we're experiencing that pops from spheres are competing against home-market pops?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by falloutboy14 View Post
    So, is what we're experiencing that pops from spheres are competing against home-market pops?
    Laissez faire strikes again!

  10. #10
    Covert Mastermind Demi Moderator Secret Master's Avatar
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    I'll just post this here, as well.

    Summary:

    SOIs are not magical economic prosperity unicorns. You must sphere intelligently, or you WILL crash your economy.
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  11. #11
    Captain Rhyus's Avatar
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    Well thamks for clearing that up i just assumed that all your pops get to sell and buy there stuff first and your spherelings second and then the WM

  12. #12
    Buying happens in prestige order. Selling happens simultaneously.
    For every subtle and complicated question, there is a simple and straightforward answer, which is wrong.

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    So if i am sphere leader but 1 of my spherlings has higher prestige they get first dibs on goods

  14. #14
    So there is no case where your own POPs buy from your own country first, then the SOI, then the World Market?

    Or was the link stating that China would flood your SOI with its products, so if your own country bought 100% of your POPs goods then it wouldn't affect China's influx of goods to the SOI because yours would be sold before they got to that level? Would China's influx only hurt you if you were depending on the SOI to purchase your goods?

    Thanks, sorry for the needed clarification.
    Rob C
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  15. #15
    General The Arch Mede's Avatar
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    Goods sold in the SOI are sold simultaneously.

    Assume there is production of 50 in your country, and 150 in your Chinese sphereling.

    Suppose there is demand of 100 in your country and 100 in your Chinese sphereling. Everyone sells everything they produce and buys everything they want.

    Now suppose demand crashes to half: 50 in your country and 50 in China. You both sell half of what you produce: you sell 25 and China sells 75, and the remaining 100 gets offered to the Rest of the World, and dumped if they don't want it.

    Now suppose demand doubled: 200 in your country and 200 in China. Since there is excess demand, you get first grab. The Chinese get to sell all their stuff (to you), but they don't get to buy anything, because you have grabbed the lot.

    Sphering gives an advantage in consumption of scarce resources, and a disadvantage in production of common resources. Early on, hordes of Chinese artisans can turn almost anything they can make common and your fledgling industry will be stuffed by them. You need a tech advantage (so your industry can stuff them and they give up and make something else instead) or access to a raw material they don't have (so you can use being ahead in the purchasing queue to stop them making it at all).

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by The Arch Mede View Post
    Goods sold in the SOI are sold simultaneously.

    Assume there is production of 50 in your country, and 150 in your Chinese sphereling.

    Suppose there is demand of 100 in your country and 100 in your Chinese sphereling. Everyone sells everything they produce and buys everything they want.

    Now suppose demand crashes to half: 50 in your country and 50 in China. You both sell half of what you produce: you sell 25 and China sells 75, and the remaining 100 gets offered to the Rest of the World, and dumped if they don't want it.

    Now suppose demand doubled: 200 in your country and 200 in China. Since there is excess demand, you get first grab. The Chinese get to sell all their stuff (to you), but they don't get to buy anything, because you have grabbed the lot.

    Sphering gives an advantage in consumption of scarce resources, and a disadvantage in production of common resources. Early on, hordes of Chinese artisans can turn almost anything they can make common and your fledgling industry will be stuffed by them. You need a tech advantage (so your industry can stuff them and they give up and make something else instead) or access to a raw material they don't have (so you can use being ahead in the purchasing queue to stop them making it at all).
    Thank you.

    So there are just 2 levels of markets:
    local: your country + others in the same SOI
    world: everyone else

    So, there is no level for just your own country if it belongs to a SOI. It seems like if your trade policy was protectionism then it should add another level so it would be:
    local: your country
    local (sphere): your country + others in the same SOI
    world: everyone else
    Rob C
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