Issues with the HRE

[Fredmonroe]

I apologize in advance if these issues are already met in the upcoming 5.3 update. But here are some issues I have found with the current HRE.

Issue 1) Uber emperor bonuses.

Currently the HRE emperor, without including any of the reform bonuses or just being emperor bonuses gains certain benefits based upon the number of states in the empire.

Monthly Stability investments = the amount of states you have in the empire. With 79 states in the empire that means you have a bonus 79 to stability investments. That's pretty OP.

Manpower increase 5X. So with 79 states, im gaining close to 400,000 manpower. Probably needs to be toned down by half or a quarter.

Land Force Limits 2X. SO my 8 province brandenburg instead of fielding 20 units max can field 180. Probably should half this number.

Prestige .1X. So 7.9 prestige per year. That should probably half'd or quartered.


Issue 2) Too Easy to Pass reforms

Because of a weak reformation and a lot of small nations, reforms are too easy to pass. (Small nations and same religious nations are typically auto yes) I'd suggest moving the imperial authority required to pass a decision to 75 or simply editing the modifiers so that the AI dont auto yes. I realize that when De Gratia is working this might be fixed slightly.

Issue 3) Status Quo

If you play a Vanilla DW, you typically see the HRE, while still retain a few small states, usually get split up between a few big players. Usually Prussia/The Hansa/Austria/Switzerland for me. In MEIOU this does not happen and it's normally just staus quo.

The reason for this, is the removal of random cores. The AI jump on cores they gain on other provinces through boundary dispute or claims, and will expand that way. There were also a few conquest to insta core missions that were removed, that did not solve the problem.

I propose that random cores be put back in for the HRE. You could make them AI only too, if you wanted to leave in the challenge of expanding in the HRE for the human player. I'm not sure if the diplomatic hotfix mission is putting the AI against eachother and leading to expansion, I haven't tried it.

You may also want to set the AI up to be aggressive.

[grayfox92]

1. ) i think thats exactly what this aims at. and try fielding an army of 180 regiments with your brandenburg - i would bet you are so fast broke you can't even say emperor also IF you become emperor as a small nation, you still should be one of the big players in the HRE as its your job to protect against france / hungary and others. but this is only my opinion, and still, i unterstand what you mean. i am excited to hear what the meiou team members say :P

2. ) didn't play in the HRE often in the past, so i don't know, but i heard that a lot from friends of mine - at least for the early reforms.

3. ) i totally agree... but i think that's a general problem: the AI stops conquering after having a small empire, which makes the game after that point a little boring... but i don't think thats an meiou issue

E: what i forgot: if it is bothering you, it shouldn't be difficult to add such things yourself or mod the bonus for the emperor. (bonus for emperor should be laying in eu3/mod/meiou/common/ staticmodifieres.txt search after "emperor"

[Fredmonroe]

1) Well the supply limit size isn't really the issue, although it's nice. It's the manpower. I actually did have several wars against an almost fully formed france as an 8 province brandenberg (I used the imperial ban casus belli to gain pieces of Burgundy and basically the HRE french culture group lands). It wasn't really an issue, with a slightly higher or even land tech + max quality + uber generals, I was able to roll him with 2 20k stacks. Sure he fielded a lot more men, but i would only engage in 20 stacks, and then because of the uber manpower bonus, I could always reinforce an almost dead stack. That's the bigger problem in EU3 with smaller nations, not money to field troops, but manpower to do so, and I found this was a non-issue.

There's no way you can think that gaining 7.9 prestige yearly is balanced though, or having instant 3 stability without doing any investments any time you lose stability is a good thing either.

I'm all for the emperor having bonuses though, but you should work for them. Perhaps more reforms could be added which add these effects. WOuld be a possible solution to 2).

3) Well the AI doesn't even conquer in general in MEIOU, and will almost always jump at a chance for a core. That's why I think it should be re instituted in MEIOU. The no free cores issue is only exacerbated when combined with the Unlawful territory HRE modifier.

E: Thanks, I will mod it myself. I was just wondering what the team thought of it. I'm also going to be using an unmodded 5.3 as I will be playing MP with that.

[grayfox92]

I was just wondering what the team thought of it.

just to be clear, i'm not one of the meiou team :P maybe they agree with you and change it - but changing it yourself is always faster^^

[Nivve]

I have some issues myself especially with the internal conflicts of the empire, but since I haven't foudn any literature yet to back it up I am at a loss whether option is wrong.
From my dutch history books I got the feeling that the emperor was pretty important, but not so important to not go to war

In other words I also think that the emperor is too powerful, however than the issue of France and the other conquering the HRE will arise

[gigau]

1. Emperor boni : I've never bother to look how moddable they are, but, one thing for sure, those boni shouldn't toned down too much, at the risk of seeing the HRE invaded by all neighbours.

2. Reforms too easely passed : i'm going to work on it during the week-end.

3. Status quo : For most of the EUIII era, HRE maintained an overall status quo of borders, so to speak. Larger kingdoms only appeared later... and thus, the spread of of cores exist for kingdoms, within their culture group. Beyond that, there are some nations that appear too warmongering or too lazy. Not yet sure what to do about it, as i don't like free cores much

[Blxz]

boni

I saw an interesting and very adamant post on another forum that 'boni', although a latin plural of 'bonus', is incorrect in this situation. Apparently it cannot be applied in the same style that one would apply the english (or indeed any romance language either) 'bonuses'. I hate to be a grammar nazi and I don't know enough to back it up but this guy was really adamant about it so I thought I would pass it on.

[grayfox92]

gigau, that about adding more missions? for bigger kingdoms one or two provinces every ten years would be perfect. i don't know if it is possible, modding is unfortunetly also not my strong point, but is there a way to add missions to random, bordering provinces? maybe up to 50 or 100 provinces, so that the kingdom doesn't get too big

[Fredmonroe]

1) Well about the emperor perks, the manpower + supply limit is not really the main issue. (Although it doesn't make sense to me that it it scales with nation as 2 OPM, and one 2 province HRE should give the same amount of troops, no? Although it's probably the only way to account for states taken from the empire from outside of it) The troops are needed to make the emperor able to fight off aggressors.

My main issue is the inability to have stability cost. You can break any truce, go into negative stability, and instantly recover it, no questions asked. I also think that getting 8 prestige yearly is just much too much.


3) Well I don't know how your new coring system works, but perhaps as grayfox said you could give generic conquest missions to HRE nations that instead of granting free cores (which you are opposed to) it grants step 1 coring, so that cores occur quicker and that the nations don't get destroyed by infamy. Also I realize that the HRE was mostly status quo, but you must sacrifice some realism for gameplay purposes. While I do think that MEIOU is leaps better than Vanilla, the Vanilla HRE is slighty more interesting because of faster cores + aggressive HRE nations forming HRE... empires.

Thanks for responding btw!

[gigau]

I saw an interesting and very adamant post on another forum that 'boni', although a latin plural of 'bonus', is incorrect in this situation. Apparently it cannot be applied in the same style that one would apply the english (or indeed any romance language either) 'bonuses'. I hate to be a grammar nazi and I don't know enough to back it up but this guy was really adamant about it so I thought I would pass it on.

There is the same debate in french too, i know.... but "boni" sounds better than "bonuses"...

Oh, i'm not going against you, i know that latin words should not be used with latin plural... although i kind of feel that rule is somewhat strange

gigau, that about adding more missions? for bigger kingdoms one or two provinces every ten years would be perfect. i don't know if it is possible, modding is unfortunetly also not my strong point, but is there a way to add missions to random, bordering provinces? maybe up to 50 or 100 provinces, so that the kingdom doesn't get too big

Missions seem like a nice way to go.