• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Status
Not open for further replies.
I don't get it.

What he said is true. The more you expand, the bigger probability immigrants have to get to you (provided the rest of the variables are in)....right?

I mean, if USA was 1/10th the size it is now, it wouldn't get the same absolute amount of immigrants.

The red means he's saying that as a Moderator. calvinhobbeslik's comment was, shall we say... provocative. RRW was likely making it clear that this thread should not disintegrate into an Israel vs. Palestine thread. Luckily, people have been civilized enough not to do that thus far.
 
The more you expand, the bigger probability immigrants have to get to you (provided the rest of the variables are in)....right?

I mean, if USA was 1/10th the size it is now, it wouldn't get the same absolute amount of immigrants.

No, there's nothing in the migration targetting to make POPs more attracted to big countries. They like the USA because it's a democracy and in the Americas. They don't care how big it is.
 
It's unrealistic. It's not what happened in Northern Schleswig. Nor did it happen much elsewhere - worker/farmer migration was much more limited IRL than you seem to believe, especially within Europe.

There were massive movements into and out of the Polish provinces, from the countryside to the cities, from the farming east to the industrialising west and of course to the USA in this period. Millions of people in Prussia/Germany alone. 12k to the new German province of Jylland is literally nothing on this scale.

Still, feel free to set migration factors all to 0 in your game.
 
You're forgetting that those are just the adult males. Also, this kind of thing didn't happen historically. English people moving from the English countryside to an English city is something else entirely. Increasing urbanisation was very common, ethnic migrations within Europe were not.

Very well, 44,000 people over thirty years is STILL much less than 70,000 in ten. But OK, I'll disregard the large number of ethnically Irish people involved in the growth of Manchester (and many other British cities), and we'll put that down to being due to the famine. Here's a couple of other examples:

Between 1825 and 1847 (22 years), 50,000 French people moved to Algieria. That's again less time than Dark's example, and more people. You could, of course, just argue that this is base colonialism, and that's fair enough I guess; after all, Dark hadn't made Denmark into a colony. So let's look at example 2...

Between 1886 and 1924, the German Settlement Comission settled 21,886 families - 154,704 actual people - in Posen. That's exactly the same amount of time, by exactly the same country, the only differences being the destination (an area taken from Poland, as opposed to an area taken from Denmark), and the numer of people going (twice as many families, or 3 and a half times as many people, IRL). I'd say that that makes it pretty hard to argue with, unless you wish to say that internal migration needs to be buffed.
 
Settling Poland was a special case both for economical reasons (Ruhrpoles makes sense, Ruhrdanes wouldn't) and ideological/political (Kulturkampf). The Poles were also initially not in a state to resist these policies, which the Danes would have been (they even managed to more or less hold their own in Schleswig). Really, in the few cases where there was significant ethnic migration within Europe, there had to be some particularly good reason for it. I don't see what that is in the case of Jutland.
 
I just hope you fix this ridiculous internal migration. In 1836 Mazowieckie Region has 600k pops, by 1880s it had 160k in my last game. Warsaw alone having 10 times less than in beginning. Now tell me why, WHY, would Polish and other people move from one of the most fertile lands in Russia and one of most human/industry/farming friendly climates, to say Siberia where Farming and pretty much industry is simply impossible due to ridiculously cold temperatures? Even moving further east would be quite out of question for most of those people, since there were strong Nationalistic Movements at that time and unless forced to do so, most Polish people wouldn't move to native Russia areas.

It seriously let me down, I tried playing campaign with Krakow, I won war badly outnumbered hoping I'll embrace 500-600k of native pops, only to find out the region is completely empty..Forget about assimilation, there was nothing left to be assimilated to Russian by that time.

ps. Another factor is rapid urbanization around the time period in which game is happening, it can be easily seen if you lunch 1861 campaign. Berlin in 1836 start has 200k pops, by 1861 it has 1.1kk. What happens in game, is instead total depopulation and opposite of urbanization. People for some bloody reason prefer to live on Sahara, Siberia or in Jungle far from civilization, newest healthcare and technology, which could be found in biggest cities(ie capital provinces of majority regions). Why it happens is beyond me, but it'd be total game changer to see some change that would enforce those trends, as after all this game is mostly about industrial revolution.
 
Settling Poland was a special case both for economical reasons (Ruhrpoles makes sense, Ruhrdanes wouldn't) and ideological/political (Kulturkampf). The Poles were also initially not in a state to resist these policies, which the Danes would have been (they even managed to more or less hold their own in Schleswig). Really, in the few cases where there was significant ethnic migration within Europe, there had to be some particularly good reason for it. I don't see what that is in the case of Jutland.

If Denmark has been annexed by the Germans, then they aren't in a position to resist either. Especially since Dark has been engaged in a ruthless campaign of forced assimilation; he HAS been involved in a kulturkampf against Denmark. They're also migrating for economic reasons; they're going where the work is. And I still strongly dispute the idea that 11k is 'significant ethnic migration', tbh, since that'd be maybe 5% of a major city.
 
If Denmark has been annexed by the Germans, then they aren't in a position to resist either. Especially since Dark has been engaged in a ruthless campaign of forced assimilation; he HAS been involved in a kulturkampf against Denmark. They're also migrating for economic reasons; they're going where the work is. And I still strongly dispute the idea that 11k is 'significant ethnic migration', tbh, since that'd be maybe 5% of a major city.
Sure they are - they managed to resist in Schleswig, why not Jutland? Remember, Germany historically did everything to make Schleswig German, but still nearly half of it voted to rejoin Denmark after WWI (and it was already roughly half Danish and half German before Prussia and Austria conquered it).

Kulturkampf doesn't make sense in this context since there were hardly any Danish Catholics. Economic reasons doesn't make sense either, unless you really think Jutland should be more economically attractive during the 1800s than the Ruhr...

Nearly 25% Germans is a significant shift in the ethnic composition of the population compared to the original situation (~0% Germans).
 
If Jutland has been industrialized (which it has), then why the hell shouldn't it be attractive..? And the use of % of total population is distorting the fact here; in absolute terms, it's a tiny number of POPs. It's only because Jylland is effectively empty at game start that the percentage appears so large. If the same number of Germans had moved to an annexed Copenhagen, then the number would be maybe 5%.

Your argument is effectively demanding that Germans don't move to Denmark because it's Denmark. If Jylland is more attractive than other areas in the German Empire, then it's absurd for POPs to refuse to go there simply on the grounds that Germans didn't move to Denmark IRL.
 
Sure they are - they managed to resist in Schleswig, why not Jutland? Remember, Germany historically did everything to make Schleswig German, but still nearly half of it voted to rejoin Denmark after WWI (and it was already roughly half Danish and half German before Prussia and Austria conquered it).

It's a-historical outcome... If someone wants to play a totalitarian nation with jackboot assimilation policies it should let them. This sort of thing should not just be possible in noted historical cases.

Going back to Israel... Should all nations maybe have an optional "cultural call" event? Where if you have accepted populations living outside your borders you can start a campaign to attract them home? Success depending on employment opportunities, pluralism, political climate (militarism, reforms). Maybe "new" nations (like Israel, Balkan nations, Italy, Poland, etc.) could get a bonus for this event.
 
I tried to make a Zionism mod a while back, but the non-functional mod system was too frustrating.

As it is, I don't really have time to do any of the coding work (the fact that religion only seemed to work on the province scope was incredibly frustrating as it prevented event and decision based country and global modifiers increasing Jewish push). If someone else wanted to start a proper Zionism mod, though, I'd be willing to chip in for sure...at least until April.
 
Closed for spam.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.