Slightly off topic and meant as humour: you could reverse the proposition but I doubt that a game called "Jihadist Caliphs" would have sold well.
Why can't we play Muslims or pagans?
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Slightly off topic and meant as humour: you could reverse the proposition but I doubt that a game called "Jihadist Caliphs" would have sold well.
So, you bought a game and you're mad you got exactly what was described? :blink: I just find this attitude utterly baffling. I bought a car recently. It gets about 19 miles/gallon. I wish it got more. But I knew what it got when I bought it, so I didn't go to the dealer and yell at them for ripping me off the first time I had to buy gas. You got the full game, just like I got the full car. The part you didn't like was fully explained and advertized. If it was going to bother you, why did you buy it?
It's the perfect DLC / Expansion Pack.
A DLC/Expansion that feels natural and make sense, because this way the developers can take their time to make sure that playing those nations will actually feel different.
They could easily just make Muslin countries selectable and make them play exactly like Catholic countries do. But I'd rather wait to play them in a more interesting way.
A DLC/Expansion that feels natural and make sense, because this way the developers can take their time to make sure that playing those nations will actually feel different.
They could easily just make Muslin countries selectable and make them play exactly like Catholic countries do. But I'd rather wait to play them in a more interesting way.
It's not really locked out as such - the Islamic world of the period functioned on a quite different sort of societal system - any DLC for Muslims/Pagans would I imagine and hope add extra functionality/events/etc to those characters, so that they are both interesting to play, and you don't get people screaming "X HAPPENED TO MY MUSLIM RULER BUT IT NEVER DID IN HISTORY. GAME IS BROKEN!!!!!". Instead, by not allowing you to play as (what would be basically unfinished) Muslims/Pagans, Paradox could add more content for the Christian world. It was a simple choice in development I would assume - more countries means less time on each one, so Paradox drew a line at going beyond Christianity.
I do not understand why people are mad. They concentrated on the christian realm in the Game.
I would rather have a polished christian playability than a half findished christian half finished muslim playability.
I Would rather wait for a DLC actually focusing on muslims. A full dev team devoting there time to the whole muslim mechanic. Imagine that Crusader kings 2 will practically be remade with the muslim mechanics
Get over it guys. They said early on that pagan/muslim playability would not be possible. Very late to fume about it now.
I would rather have a polished christian playability than a half findished christian half finished muslim playability.
I Would rather wait for a DLC actually focusing on muslims. A full dev team devoting there time to the whole muslim mechanic. Imagine that Crusader kings 2 will practically be remade with the muslim mechanics
Get over it guys. They said early on that pagan/muslim playability would not be possible. Very late to fume about it now.
First of all, they said in this thread that such an expansion/dlc is at least being considered. Secondly, you really need to chill out. You're awfully worked up over something that isn't really a big deal (did you miss the part where you can tag switch to Muslim and pagan countries with the console, or edit your save game?), and which was fully explained months before the product's release.
It's not uncommon in strategy games that there are playable factions and then there are AI factions. Also it's not uncommon that future expansions bring more playable factions into the game. So, what is your problem? Who owes you and what? CK has always been series where only Christians are playable, but if they are going to change that in some future expansion then it's good, but not necessary. CK is the best feudal strategy there is and I'm happy that they focused on making the Christians detailled. I haven't seen other games where feudalism is simulated in such detail as in CK, so they have fullfilled everything they have promised to do. I have no doubt that if they make Muslim expansion in the future it will be well worth the money, because unlike some companies their expansions add a lot to new stuff into the games, not just couple of new factions and units.
I think BrieTree brings up a good point though; what does the ability for modders to say make a Muslim or Pagan mod have to do with DLC? Does Paradox think that modders will compete against their own expansions/DLC?
Frankly if modders were somehow making better mods than Paradox can make DLC/Expansions then I don't think Paradox is releasing worthwhile content.
Anything Paradox releases should already be bounds above and beyond whatever modders can do without Paradox imposing artificial limitations on the modding community.
Essentially I feel that modders are not a threat to Paradox and they should embrace them, Don't discourage us from modding in Muslims/Pagans instead come up with even better content than that, after all this is just a hobby to us; for you this is a job you should be pumping out A+ content.
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I suppose someone should point out that while you can't start the game as a Muslim or Pagan, you can become one with some clever heir education.
Being a Muslim isn't all that bad. It's kind of like being a christian heresy, and those are just as easy to become an adherent of.
Being a Muslim isn't all that bad. It's kind of like being a christian heresy, and those are just as easy to become an adherent of.
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No, if they aren't in the specifically Christian group (as in "only one allowable religion" for fantasy mods as well) then it doesn't work at all. I've tried adding a new group to check if it just checked in the already existing ones, but it apparently isn't that it checks what things aren't allowed, it's that it checks that anything that isn't "christian = { }" is banned from the game. It still stated "Not allowed to play alternative_group!".
I made a video guide on how to play Muslims and Pagans: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuUkWoTxbL8
But to be very honest, I can't recommend it until a Muslim/Pagan mod or DLC is ready, there just isn't enough flavor there to warrant playing as them right now.
But to be very honest, I can't recommend it until a Muslim/Pagan mod or DLC is ready, there just isn't enough flavor there to warrant playing as them right now.
Can't you mod the Christian group to be a genetic holder for the fantasy religions?
The same problem existed with CK1's pagan mod. There simply wasn't anything interesting to do with them (and besides that you got weird AI events). I tried playing muslim and pagan in demo, but like you said it wasn't particularly interesting. I certainly hope that if Paradox makes Muslims and Pagans DLC/expansions then there will be new gameplay mechanics and events. Although I would find playable noble republics more interesting than most of the pagans and muslims. Then again there certainly are few interesting factions in both of those religious groups.
Yes:
Looks like they need to be in the Christian group though. I also though you could add new groups, but that doesn't appear possible. AFAIK (and to add a big disclaimer, I am not on the CK2 team) the intent was not to lock out modders from changing religions, it was just make it impossible to pick Pagans/Muslims on the main screen, so that if you mod/cheat them playable it's entirely clear that it is not a supported feature. Currently you can just cut/past Muslims and Pagans into the Christian group if you want, although obviously that breaks crusades/relations etc.
You completely miss the point, by your logic if Scotland and England were the only playable nations the game would still be "Crusader Kings" and would still be what we brought. In addition, they have made the Muslim nations fine, they work just like all others work but they want to make you pay more for what is there, to fix your point this is like buying a car and paying extra to get the trunk open.
To make it simple, they made all the factions workable then left some out to make you pay more to play them.
Also baffling? You find being angry at getting a game with half the factions locked out for later payment baffling?
To the other gentleman, just saying that it's ok because lots of other companies do it is not justification, it is condemning.
Muslims aren't really that much less interesting than Orthodox and Monophysite Christians. No investiture, but can wage holy wars and even have a Caliph. A few of the events are kind of awkward flavor-wise because they were clearly written with Christian players in mind, though.
(And on a side note Monophysite shouldn't be an orthodox heresy. That battle was long over by 1066.)
Pagans... I think there are four, maybe five interesting ones. Erik the Heathen, the Cumans, the Golden Horde and the Il-Khanate (from later start dates obviously) and perhaps Pagan Lithuania once it gets big enough. The rest seem like speedbumps, because they're so small they just get holy warred.
(And on a side note Monophysite shouldn't be an orthodox heresy. That battle was long over by 1066.)
Pagans... I think there are four, maybe five interesting ones. Erik the Heathen, the Cumans, the Golden Horde and the Il-Khanate (from later start dates obviously) and perhaps Pagan Lithuania once it gets big enough. The rest seem like speedbumps, because they're so small they just get holy warred.
The next update -needs- to add playability and expansive options that deal with non-christian(catholic) aspects of the game.
Why? Because in my game, Catholicism has -lost-. There is no incentive for me to keep fighting for the Church. The Pope is a Sunni, he's calling Jihads(but I can still use him mechanically to divorce and gain piety). The Holy Roman Empire is under the sway of Fraticelli heretics. France and Castille are with the Cathar. British Isles is all Lollard. Italy is under Sunni control. Scandinavia? all Fraticelli. Hungary and the balklands? Lollarded. Russia is all Tengri.
The last holdout for the One True Faith is in my kingdom, Poland, and I'm already losing it to the Waldensian heresy. The tide is too strong to turn back. Europe has succumbed.
I can keep playing but there isn't much crusading left to do. So much for "crusader kings" (which by the way is a terrible reason to argue for something, even with this name, crusading is a very very very very very minor aspect of this game)
Oh, I didn't mention the Byzantium Empire, forever holding on to Orthodoxy. It is only a matter of time, however.
Great game, it needs more. Forever more more more. Sandbox dynamic gameplay like this must always have MORE. It can't just stay as it is, it needs more.
Why? Because in my game, Catholicism has -lost-. There is no incentive for me to keep fighting for the Church. The Pope is a Sunni, he's calling Jihads(but I can still use him mechanically to divorce and gain piety). The Holy Roman Empire is under the sway of Fraticelli heretics. France and Castille are with the Cathar. British Isles is all Lollard. Italy is under Sunni control. Scandinavia? all Fraticelli. Hungary and the balklands? Lollarded. Russia is all Tengri.
The last holdout for the One True Faith is in my kingdom, Poland, and I'm already losing it to the Waldensian heresy. The tide is too strong to turn back. Europe has succumbed.
I can keep playing but there isn't much crusading left to do. So much for "crusader kings" (which by the way is a terrible reason to argue for something, even with this name, crusading is a very very very very very minor aspect of this game)
Oh, I didn't mention the Byzantium Empire, forever holding on to Orthodoxy. It is only a matter of time, however.
Great game, it needs more. Forever more more more. Sandbox dynamic gameplay like this must always have MORE. It can't just stay as it is, it needs more.
Its not becuase its called Crusader Kings that you got what you payed for. Its because it was advertised from the beginning that you could only play christian rulers.
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