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It will eventually happen; it has to; otherwise a lot of gameplay is going down the pan. The dynamic nature of the game, so quickly can religions shift. In my main game, only one kingdom is still Catholic. I'm so very tempted to just give in to the heresies/infidelities that have conquered Europe; but ahah, the game's focus is on me staying Christian(Catholic), even if the natural development in my game has marked Christianity as dead, no more. The Pope is a sunni, he is deep in islamic territory that prevents me from anti-poping to cleanse the papacy. It is great story, but a story that could continue had gameplay events/features extended out of the jesus team.

So yeah, we can't play them now, but we will in the future. Too much empty game in CK2 to -not- have it.
 
Would it really be that hard to patch religious groups so new religious groups can be added and playable for fantasy mods and other misc. religious mods? That is all anybody reasonable is asking for. Adding things to the Christian group doesn't help because that just makes everyone Christian.
 
I am looking forward to play this game, with or without pagans or muslims, although i feel a powerful force dragging me to the pagan side ;).

Nevertheless, i hope for a DLC which offers us fully-integrated support for muslims and pagans with the main game. I don't bother with having to wait a couple of months for the (eventual) DLC if i know i get a quality product. From what i've heard and seen about CK2 it looks like a great product without annoying bugs or CTD's. It would be only right to wait for an equally great expansion for a longer time than to crave those features asked for released in this instant in a buggy, unfinished state.

Kudos to PI for another great game :wub:
 
Would it really be that hard to patch religious groups so new religious groups can be added and playable for fantasy mods and other misc. religious mods? That is all anybody reasonable is asking for. Adding things to the Christian group doesn't help because that just makes everyone Christian.
So your mod renames the 'Christian' group as 'Religions of Fantasylandia' or whatever instead, and has the different religions under that group, the way Orthodox and Catholic are now. Easy.
 
Frankly, I am confused why the debate is still going. Seems pretty cut and dry, the game is centered around Christian Nobles; and it would appear that Pagans and Muslims will be playable in the future. End of story.
 
So your mod renames the 'Christian' group as 'Religions of Fantasylandia' or whatever instead, and has the different religions under that group, the way Orthodox and Catholic are now. Easy.
Uhh. This removes a major part of the game. You can't have crusades or holy wars if everyone is part of the same religious group. This isn't a real fix, it's an awkward kludge.
 
Frankly, I am confused why the debate is still going. Seems pretty cut and dry, the game is centered around Christian Nobles; and it would appear that Pagans and Muslims will be playable in the future. End of story.

I really don't want to keep replying to this topic because i've pretty much made every point I feel I need to; however I do have to correct you. The proper debate is over the modability of religious groups, not the inclusion of muslims/pagans *in vanilla*.
 
considering how ingrain religion is in the fundemental dynamics of the game, it's probably too difficult and complicated to allow them to be moddable without too much unintended consequences on basic gameplay.

it would do better as a standalone.

and as far as pagans and islam specifically, as stated p[lenty of times, they will be playable in the future.
 
I really don't want to keep replying to this topic because i've pretty much made every point I feel I need to; however I do have to correct you. The proper debate is over the modability of religious groups, not the inclusion of muslims/pagans *in vanilla*.

Why the proper debate is about mods? Original post didn't mention mods and for majority of the posters this discussion has been about vanilla CKII, because majority of people don't play mods. Modders are just a small, but vocal minority.
 
Why the proper debate is about mods? Original post didn't mention mods and for majority of the posters this discussion has been about vanilla CKII, because majority of people don't play mods. Modders are just a small, but vocal minority.

Because it's unfair to demand Paradox incorporate Muslims/Pagans into the game when they say its not the focus of the game. It's fair to ask for that particular part of the game to be modable. You probably haven't noticed but there are multiple OPs in this thread and multiple issues present.

However I feel asking for Muslim/Pagan play is an unfair argument that we wont win.

considering how ingrain religion is in the fundemental dynamics of the game, it's probably too difficult and complicated to allow them to be moddable without too much unintended consequences on basic gameplay.

It really isn't that difficult or complicated... All mods are unintended that's why we modded the game and changed it to what we intend rather than what the developers intended.
 
Because it's unfair to demand Paradox incorporate Muslims/Pagans into the game when they say its not the focus of the game. It's fair to ask for that particular part of the game to be modable. You probably haven't noticed but there are multiple OPs in this thread and multiple issues present.

However I feel asking for Muslim/Pagan play is an unfair argument that we wont win.



It really isn't that difficult or complicated... All mods are unintended that's why we modded the game and changed it to what we intend rather than what the developers intended.

I really do not think you understood what I meant at all.

It's so ingrained in the dynamics of the game that it would affect things beyond playability, or cause goofy things to happen.
 
I really don't understand you then; what would happen that would affect playability?

I'm saying COULD, I'm not a dev. I'm saying that since religion is so deeply a part of the game, that any modding of it might cause problems the get in the way of playability. It's not hard to understand what I'm saying.
 
That is the problem now days with the way gaming is going. Once you would have downloaded a major patch getting them or they would have been released with the game. Now many features are purposely left out for DLC like the crap they released on the first day.
yepp, thats what CA did with Empire Total War if im not mistaken, they actually made a DLC with units at the same day as E:TW got released... Why not let them into the game?
 
I'm saying COULD, I'm not a dev. I'm saying that since religion is so deeply a part of the game, that any modding of it might cause problems the get in the way of playability. It's not hard to understand what I'm saying.

Well I mean it is hard to understand since you are just making things up/speculating. It isn't productive to the debate unless you yourself have an example of how it messes up gameplay/playability.

If a dev says this ok; but so far we haven't had any devs comment other than Darkrenown mostly (and he only seems to have some speculation himself since he's not on the dev team for CK2) and he never said it was done for playability/modding reasons he said it was a blunt force solution to the problem of people playing as Muslims/Pagans in vanilla.
 
I didn't expect to be able to play Muslims, since they weren't playable in the first one. That isn't my issue. My issue is that the Muslims (the Turks at least) seem to have been weakened in the last 8 years. I started a near-infinite number of Byzantine games over the years, and not once was I ever able to just house the Seljuk Turks in 1066, as is the standard here. The initial war always resulted in the loss of Armenia, and often (if on higher difficulty) much of Asia Minor as well. Now, the Byzantines simply choke them off nearly immediately. It is as if the advantages that the (non playable) Muslim nations once had are gone now, and that needs to be changed. I've gotten around this somewhat by starting my Byzantine games after Manzikert (loss of Asia Minor), but i am going to lose interest if the Sultanate of Rum is an easy pushover from here on out.
 
Why can't we play Muslims or pagans?

Because the game is called crusader kings? Kinda obvious, you know.
 
Because it's unfair to demand Paradox incorporate Muslims/Pagans into the game when they say its not the focus of the game. It's fair to ask for that particular part of the game to be modable. You probably haven't noticed but there are multiple OPs in this thread and multiple issues present.

However I feel asking for Muslim/Pagan play is an unfair argument that we wont win.

Actually I participated into more than one discussion which were merged into this thread. Original posts had the same general agenda, which was: "OMG I feel cheated. Why can't I play as Muslim or Pagan!" And while I agree with you that it's unfair to demand what was never promised, I don't consider that the discussion about the topic should vanilla CKII have playable Muslims is improper.
 
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