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Thread: De Hautevilles- Can Anyone Stop the Norman Invasion?

  1. #201
    I had no idea Bohemond was so vain to name the Empire after his own family. Since it is family, all those de hauteville's in other realms will become target s for assassins from rulersnot wanting to lose land held by de Hauteville's to defect to their family empire.Obvious must be Bohemond's middle name.

  2. #202
    Field Marshal hjarg's Avatar
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    Canonical Disputes

    Administrative Reforms of Emperor Bohemond


    As soon as the Empire was formed, Bohemond relinquished one of his King titles- Duke Asclettin I of Jerusalem was made King of Jerusalem, giving him full control over Holy Land and. Rest of the King titles were held by Bohemond, but he had hinted his happy vassals that there might be more Kings given away in the future.


    New King of Jerusalem

    More importantly, Bohemond, i wake of disagreements with the Pope Urbanus II (in matter Pope refusing to recognize the right of Bohemond to call himself an Emperor), called for change in laws in both Empire and Sicily- that Pope would have no rights to name Bishops and that right would solely belong to Emperor. Both laws were passed in May and Bohemond named his cousin Sayer de Hauteville as inheritor of all the titles.

    It just happened that Bishop of Trapani was at the end of his years and in the end of May, the the poor bishop died, making Sayer de Hauteville a Bishop. Just a few days later, Bohemond declared him to be an Anti-Pope, called Simplicius II.


    The Pope and the Anti-Pople

    The War for Papacy

    There is no point in making Anti-Pope if you just want him to chill around. For decay of authority of the Church would mean heresies everywhere and that is not what Bohemond wanted- not yet. So, the best thing you can do with an Anti-Pope is to kick the real Pope from the throne and install your own faithful puppet.

    In 15th June 1192, Emperor Bohemond declared war on Urban II, claiming that the Pope is a deviant who needs to be removed from throne and true Pope Simplicius should take the throne.

    As soon as a war was declared, Bohemond called his vassals from Italy to siege the Barony of Benevento that was still in Papal hands. Main force of Papacy, amounting a bit over 7000 troops, started its march from Rome to relieve the siege- and thatís where they made their first mistake.

    Bohemond gathered his armies in Palermo and as soon as the Papal forces marched into Capua, he sailed his troops across to the mainland, landing behind the Papal armies and forcing them to either fight an uneven battle of be cut off from their supplies. The Papal generals chose to fight. Result: 6000 Papal soldiers dead, about 1500 left and they were marching to Benevento, while Bohemond was unopposed in his march to Rome.


    The war is over before it even begun- the Papal armies defeated

    In September, 2500 Norman soldiers sieging Benevento finally assaulted- but they were not veterans of Bohemond. Instead, they were the Italian troops who had rarely seen action in all Bohemondís campaigns. They won, but the price was costly- their morale down, their numbers down to 1000 men. The Papal Forces were quick to use the situation- 1200 soldiers down in Capua were readying themselves to march to Benevento and at least score one victory.

    This would have ended badly to Italian forces, but instead, it showed the mobility of Hautevilles- orders were given, quick boats were soon full of troops and from both Africa and rest of Sicily, fresh troops were shipped in- so instead of little over 1000 exhausted soldiers, Papal troops met 6000 men, most of them rested, armed and full of bloodlust. The remnants of Papal armies were defeated in October.


    Papal armies marching to meet exhausted Normans in battle are in for a little surprise

    Rome also fell in October. Bohemond assaulted the city and in following days, Sicilian troops were let loose on the city. The plunders of Rome became legendary amongst Bohemondís troops, though very little reached the coffers of Bohemond himself. The citizens of Rome, losing their gold, their valuables, losing the dignity of their wives and daughters and occasionally, even losing their lives (you know, comes as a side effect of not wanting to lose your wealth or the dignity of your womanfolk and being too vocal about it). In later time, it was called ďSacco di RomaĒ and the sight of his city burning made Urban II to flee Castelo SantíAngelo and seek shelter elsewhere. The war was practically decided, though Bohemond was forced to do a quick assault of Tusculum as well.

    In November, Pope Urbanus II had fled the city and Simplicius II marched unopposed to Rome, where Curia declared him the true Pope and Usurper Urbanus was declared false Pope and ordered never to return to Rome again.

    First thing Simplicius II did was to confirm Bohemondís right to call himself an Emperor. Thus how Bohemond overcame Papal reluctance and yet another de Hauteville was amongst the greatest of Europe. Rest of the world did not even have enough time to react and were left with no choice but to acknowledge the new Pope. The morale of the story is: canonical disputes are won by the one who carries the biggest sword.


    The New Pope- and hey, he's married!
    My latest AARs

    Portugal- an Empire Under the Sun: Questing for the new world and taking the old world.

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  3. #203
    Field Marshal hjarg's Avatar
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    Argh, what a waste of good war! I thought happily that by taking the Papacy as Emperor, i would press the claim and gain myself a vassal, but in the end, all i got is de Hauteville as Pope. Philippe IV Fair would turn over in his grave for such a performance... Grrr, i'm half-wanting to mod the Pope as vassal. What do you think?

    thunderball13- more like 2 empires for the price of one. Or double-empire! Anyways, later is stays normal
    grumphie- ok, i'll think about that. Keeping the -20 relationship for them doges wanting to become Kings, but not being able to become Kings- baah!
    Chief Ragusa- if the other rulers try that, they might get the wrath of Bohemond upon them. Don't piss off de Hautevilles, you know! Plus, i don't think there are that many of Hautevilles aboard.
    My latest AARs

    Portugal- an Empire Under the Sun: Questing for the new world and taking the old world.

    de Hautevilles- Can Anyone Stop the Norman Invasion?: A tale of Normans in Southern Italy. Completed!

  4. #204
    Basileus Romaion Nikolai's Avatar
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    As you correctly note, installing an anti-pope in Rome does not make him your vassal. But I agree it would fit here. Only make sure to add in some controversy events of some kind. It shouldn't be too easy to hold on to the pope as vassal.
    Fear not, for I am with you; Be not dismayed, for I am your God. -Isa 41:10

    For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. -John 3:16
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  5. #205
    Field Marshal grumphie's Avatar
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    a d'hautvilel pope. NICE! i would advice you to kill of his wife and children though, as as sson as he dies someone else will take over and all his kids will become antipopes(aka, even a 1000 diplo pope will have authority loss)

    i wouldt mod the pope as vassel. i believe he cant call crusades or authorise invasions then. on the other hand, almsot freely excommunicating the catholic world IS a nice tool

  6. #206
    This is a thoroughly amazing AAR! Plus, it has also taught me a lot about the mechanics, and has inspired me to think of my playthroughs as stories, rather than just winning and losing (a good story is a lot of fun, even when you're losing).

  7. #207
    Field Marshal grumphie's Avatar
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    enjoying 1.06?

    it should beef up the remaining muslims a bit(assuming they are still in a state where they CAN become a threath) with the new holy wars between shia and sunni and territorial conquest CB. maybe the broken shia caliphate will suprise you by conquering the old seljjuks and become super-powerfull

  8. #208
    Field Marshal hjarg's Avatar
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    You Live By the Sword, You Die By the Sword

    War for Sevilla, 1193-?

    Emirate of Seville was an Emirate of Tangiers a few month before Bohemond usurped the title. Before that, it was part of Kingdom of Mauretania, to the moment when Bohemond usurped that title as well. Still, the Emirate had sailed across Gibraltar like their ancestors back in 8th century. They did not manage to get the whole Iberian peninsula as their ancestors did, but they took the Duchy of Seville. Then they tried to push further, but Christians in Iberia stopped their advance. Now, the Emirate of Seville would fall even further, for Bohemond decided it would be time to gain some prime real estate in Spain.

    War on Emirate of Seville was declared in May 1193. Soon, 17 000 Normans sailed from Sicily to Seville. Even better news was that the recruits arriving in Palermo numbered over 20 000, not counting the troops of Malta that Bohemond did not request. So, for the first time in history of Sicily, some troops were left behind.

    Though Seville was part of Sultanate of Al-Andalus for more nearly 400 years before Christians took it back, in the short time the province had been Christianized and itís inhabitants looked disapprovingly upon the African conquerors. To Bohemond, it meant that he would always find peasants who would work as guides, even some who know the weakness of the fortresses. Not to mention that Tangerian forces would have hard time moving in the country, for there is always a chance to get a pitchfork in the back.

    To make it short: friendly countryside, just conquered fortresses, a bit under repaired and with small garrisons meant one thing: Sicilians arrived in late July. By the middle of September, all three provinces of Seville were under Norman control.


    Normans having a surprisingly easy time in Iberia while Muslims are preparing their pathetically small forces for defence

    Forces of Emirate did not even reach Iberia, they were still gathering in Africa. And the forces of Tangiers were even not that numerous. Still, they decided not to stay on defensive, but to raid. Province of Snassen was where 2000 Muslims went on pillaging spree of their fellow Muslims. Just a few days after that, Norman troops landed, crushed the Muslims and by that, they killed every single man of enemyís forces. The war was decided, rest of it was just a formality.


    The battle of Oudja, 72 Normans dead vs 1993 Muslims.

    The Hills Are Alive with the Sound of Fighting

    It was after the Sicilians left the province of Seville and sailed to Africa when trouble accured in the province. Small band of rebels loyal to Muslims, lead by a capable commander called Yahia al-Yakub rose to ruin the province. They were small band, only 550 men, but they were determined. They pillaged the villages, they burned the churches and they even frightened garrison of Seville long enough that they decided it would be better to retreat.

    In all that, Bohemond decided that it was time to act quickly and after the Muslim main forces in Africa had been defeated, he moved to Iberia again. It was hurried march, leaving infantry behind and only cavalry marching to relieve the province- if for nothing else, then to show Christian population of the province that Normans could be trusted for protection.

    It was in the small gorge where Bohemond and his entourage entered where Muslims sprung their trap. No more then 20 knights were protecting the Emperor, and all the 500 of Muslims were there. Arrows started flying, bouncing off the plate and chain of the knights, but some took hits and some horses were wounded, bouncing off their riders and trampling upon them, scared. In chaos, the Muslims charged. The knights formed a circle around Bohemond, trying to protect him. They filled the land with corpses of Muslims, but there was just too many. One by one, the knights fell and then, one Muslim got through and pushed a pike on Emperorís neck.

    The world went dark as Bohemond fell off the saddle. He lived long enough to hear the bugles play charge, he hear as the light cavalry, a bit too late, charged the Muslims and killed them all and then, he heard nothing. At age of 48, the great Emperor Bohemond I de Hauteville had left this world.


    The End of Bohemond

    Leader of the Muslim rebels, Yahia al Yakub, was caught, and then he was quartered between horses. He died screaming as the horses pulled his body apart. Each city in Seville got the a small piece of him, to show Normans what they do with rebels.

    That did not matter much to Bohemond though, for he was on his way to Palermo, covered in salt so that his body can survive the transport and he did not hear the screams of Muslims. Bohemond II, former Count of Malta, now Emperor of Hauteville Empire, sailed also to Palermo, to take control of the realm.


    The Emperor is Dead, Long Live the Emperor! Incidentally, Bohemond II is the first de Hauteville ruler without a beard!
    My latest AARs

    Portugal- an Empire Under the Sun: Questing for the new world and taking the old world.

    de Hautevilles- Can Anyone Stop the Norman Invasion?: A tale of Normans in Southern Italy. Completed!

  9. #209
    Field Marshal hjarg's Avatar
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    Killed by a smashing 500 rebels- not a great way yo go for an Emperor ruling over quarter of fifth or so of the known world :P But hey, that's life. Or death.

    Anyways, my vacation is about to start and that means that i'll be suspending writing for about 3 weeks or so. I'll try to get obituary of Bohemond I done, but no updates beyond that.

    Nikolai- would fit, but i decided not to- not at this time at least. There is some more time to play, so i might expel the Pope from Rome or so some other nasty stuff :P
    grumphie- they would? Heh, well... that means the spread of heresy and that means the Holy Wars in Europe... or perhaps the Cathar Norman Empire or something else fun. I'll let them live for a while and see how it turns out. As for 1.06- this update was still played with 1.05 and haven't played with the new one yet. But looking forward to it, though i doubt Shia can rise again.
    bashwell - thanks a lot! And that's what i enjoy about CK 2- stories. I make stuff up as i go and only a fraction of stories makes to this AAR (or we'd still be around Duke Robert of King Bohemond I).
    My latest AARs

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  10. #210
    Ah, Bohemond IV and I dying going after another "easy" conquest at the hands of a rebel. Describing him as great is. well. overstated.
    ican imagine a conversation wit hAsclettin going as follows:

    "I became an Emperor and ensured our families name immortalized for ever naming the Empire after us."

    And Asclettin replying "So you took a small two county Kingdom and created your own empire. Had I had your advantages, I would have conquered all of Italy and taken the Holy Roman Empire, a real Empire, for myself and our family. That's would have been true greatness!"

    Bohemond II is the first de hauteville ruler withouta beard. His wife doesn't have one either, so he's doubly blessed. An emperor dying at the hands of rebels is not a good augury for an Emnpire.

  11. #211
    Field Marshal grumphie's Avatar
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    now you say it, asclettin with the current norman empire would take over the entire world within the month. seriously, the normans are growing decadent. u used to defeat the shia calipahte with an inferiour number of troops. now you die by the hands of 500 rebel scum.

  12. #212
    Field Marshal hjarg's Avatar
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    Awww, come on, you two, Bohemond is not that bad.

    Chief Ragusa- Bohemond created two King titles and only then crowned himself an Emperor. And i didn't want to take the Holy Roman Emperor, i want to beat him back across the Alps- and then perhaps follow him.
    grumphie- decadent? I'm making an obituary of Bohemond and doing some statistics. Here we go: Bohemond conquered total 34 provinces, fought in 17 wars (or 19, if you count smacking sheikdoms of Kabylia into separate wars), created or usurped total 8 Ducal titles, 2 King titles and created 1 Emperor title. That does sound blood-thirsty bastards, not decadent :P
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    Portugal- an Empire Under the Sun: Questing for the new world and taking the old world.

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  13. #213
    The decadent comment, I think, stems for the fact that Bohemond and his 20 household knights fell to a mere 500 muslims.

    There are of course lies, damned lies and statistics.

    Bohemond failed to place a vassal family member on the throne of St Peter -he botched the war.

    How, I want to know, does Bohemond II and his advisers have a combined martial score of 55?

  14. #214
    Field Marshal grumphie's Avatar
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    it IS decadent. with the recources you have(the strongest army in the known world) ascelettin would steamroll the entire world within the month. he wouldnt even DARE to be even wounded by a ambush of 500 muslims.

  15. #215
    Na, i just think he didn't have enough time.He should have paused his world declared war on every Muslim state for a holy war for some land and then raise levies >

  16. #216
    Great work, first time commenter, subbed

  17. #217
    this is the second crusader kings 2 place i am posting in.

  18. #218
    Field Marshal hjarg's Avatar
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    The Life and Death of Emperor Bohemond I

    Emperor Bohemond I ruled for total 31 years and during his time, Sicily or Hauteville Empire, as it was now called, became the power in the Mediterranean and in the rest of the world. Once again, it is easy to forget that Bohemond did not start from nothing but instead, he inherited powerful, rich and quite peaceful realm. To be honest, Bohemond did not even have to push himself hard, but could have settled with the realm his ancestors left to him. Still, that was not how Bohemond ruled. Instead, he expanded rapidly in all directions, gaining land in north, east, south and west.

    On personal note, he left behind 12 children, 6 of them boys and 6 girls, with 2 wives and 1 mistress. The safety of the throne was more then secured

    The Heavenly Kingdom

    Overall, Bohemond fought two wars in the Holy Land, securing the Kingdom and bringing every province of the Kingdom safely to Christian hands. The first war ever fought by Bohemond was a Holy War for Ascalon. Fought in 1164-1165, the war was easy, for Caliphate was yet again in the middle of civil wars and distress. The war ended with Duchy of Ascalon becoming Norman and Bohemond having finally enough provinces to declare himself as the King of Jerusalem, gaining heavy prestige in progress- and nabbing himself a nickname ďthe HolyĒ

    Second war was the Crusade Pope Urban himself called to liberate the Kingdom of Jerusalem from Muslim hands, not minding the fact that most of Jerusalem was already Norman and Bohemond had been crowned by the Pope himself. This Crusade lasted from 1169-1172 and in the end, Bohemond came out as the greatest contributor to the fight, though the losses of Sicily had never been so high. The Duchy of Oultejordain, last of the four duchies of Jerusalem, was safely under Norman control.

    Fights with Holy Roman Empire

    Holy Roman Empire was still deeply entrenched within Italy, and Normans wanted that rich land for themselves. So, with civil war in Empire in 1166, Bohemond tried to take his chance of the Empire- to gain the land of rebellious Duke of Verona. The Normans took the Verona well enough, but the little rebellion ended and the war was unsuccessful due to lands being proper Empire again.

    That did not stop Bohemond, and he tried to take Verona again, but this time from the Emperor himself. War lasted 1168-1169, and Norman troops proved to be successful in fighting the Emperor. German troops sent across the Alps were promptly defeated and Normans showed the rest of Europe that they have really learned how to take castles. Verona, the first Italian Duchy to be taken directly from the Emperor, was Bohemondís. But that was not all, for Bohemond fought several wars with the Emperor.

    Next war with Emperor was from 1175-1176, fought over last province of Verona, Treviso. Once again, Sicilians took the initiative, took the province, beat the Germans and finally, won the war.

    Next fight with the Holy Roman Empire was not proper war- Count of Istria, former Duke of Carinthia had broken free of the Empire was King Bohemond just happened to have a courtier with claim of that County, so in 1185, after 1,5 month of warfare, Istria was under Sicilian control.

    Proper was with Emperor was in 1186, just 10 years after the peace treaty. Bohemond had fabricated a claim on Ancona and did declare war on Emperor to make these claims come true. As usual, Normans took the province so fast that some people didnít even realize that the war had begun and then the troops were set loose on Italy. Cities, castles and bishoprics fell and before Emperor could even bring his troops down to South, the war was over.

    When the Emperor died in 1187, Sicily was ready for another war, this time over the Dukedom of Pisa. The war started in 1188 and ended just after half a year of fighting. The Emperor seemed to understand that there is no point in bringing in troops across the Alps, so he just gave up and gave the rich Duchy to Bohemond.

    Overall, Bohemond gained two full Duchies and two separate provinces from the Holy Roman Empire, making the dream of owning Italy much easier to his successors.

    Westwards advances

    Emirate of Kabylia was split into minor counties with Sheiks ruling them and feuding amongst each other. That also meant that the enemy was unable to offer much resistance and three counties of Duchy of Algiers were taken from heathens and put under Norman rule. The war lasted from 1165-1166

    Then, Bohemond took counties left from Emirate of Kabylia in a war lasting 1177-1178. Counties of Ouled Nail and Biskra were all that was left from a powerful Emirate. They were not able to offer much of resistance and the provinces were incorporated to Kingdom of Sicily without much resistance.

    Sultanate of Mauretania was the westernmost of Muslim nations and in a war in 1179-1181, Bohemond took the first Duchy from them- Tlemcen. The war was not that tough, but the reason being more because Sicily was able to steamroll pretty much anything now.

    Next target was Duchy of Tangiers, war lasting from 1191-1192. Norman troops landed in the distant province, won the sieges, beat the Sultanate armies and for the first time, Sicilian reach extended beyond the Mediterranean and into the Atlantic. With that war, Sultanate of Mauretania was dismissed and Bohemond crowned himself as the King of Mauretania.

    In 1193, Bohemond went for another war against the Muslims, this time with hopes of gaining Duchy of Seville. This war proved to be his final.

    Byzantine adventures

    When the Byzantine Empire crumbled in civil war, Bohemond was quick to use the opportunity. His first wife Petronella had a solid claim on County of Hellas and Bohemond used it on a newly independent Duchy of Athens. War lasted in 1183-1184 and Bohemondís second son, Oswulf, was made a Count of Hellas. It was the first time Normans took something from Byzantine lands, but it would not be the last.

    Also, Isaakios de Hauteville, now independent ruler of Duchy of Samos, asked Bohemondís help in making his Duchy bigger, and Bohemond agreed. War for Attileia took place in 1185-1186 and it was first time for Normans to fight in Anatolia. In the end, Norman support was just what Doux needed and Bohemond has a valuable ally in Byzantine lands.

    The Shia Caliphate

    Ever since Caliphate decided to attack Asclettin and the great King had Caliph and his three heirs killed, the Caliphate had been in sorry state. Constant infighting, several chunks becoming independent and whole Caliphate becoming poor, with burned villages and looted cities. Trade had stopped, farming was a minimal and whole Caliphate was suffering. It did not help when the Caliph inherited the Seljuk Turks, for soon, the Seljuk Lords were soon also fighting amongst themselves and against the poor Caliph, who had now ruined two realms.

    Bohemond used that disarray to first take the Duchy of Ascalon, but that part is covered in Heavenly Kingdom. In 1189, Bohemond decided to take further advantage of the situation and conquered Duchy of Alexandria

    The Papacy

    It was in 1192, soon after Bohemond crowned himself an Emperor when the disagreements with the Pope were too much for Bohemond. So, he made his relative Sayer de Hauteville an antipope called Simplicitus II, went to war with Papacy and in less then a year, Pope Urban II was fleeing while Simplicitus II de Hauteville ruled as a Pope and a Puppet over the whole Christian lands.

    The Economy

    Bohemond finished construction of castles in Palermo, making the province able to field over 10 000 highly trained units. Plus, he constantly improved castles all over Siciliy and Calabria, thus making his personal demesne able to field over 20 000 soldiers.

    He was also founder of several holdings- 2 castles that were added to his personal demesne and one city that was given to local Mayor. He also built a city in Venice, giving it to Doge and making total number of cities in Vence 3.

    Bohemond kept also promoting Doges- 1 in Algiers, 1 in Tlemcen and 1 in Tangiers. Though the provinces were still freshly conquered, they already started adding to Bohemondís coffers, making the ruler of Hauteville Empire the richest in the world.

    Overall

    Bohemond conquered total 34 provinces, fought in 17 wars (or 19, if you count smacking sheikdoms of Kabylia into separate wars), created or usurped total 8 Ducal titles, 2 King titles and created 1 Emperor title.


    And with these badly drawn lines, i give you the total conquests of Bohemond
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  19. #219
    Field Marshal hjarg's Avatar
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    And here we go, with this update comes an end to the life and ruling of Emperor Bohemond Not So Great as Asclettin I! And with it, i'm going for a vacation and next update will be in about 3 weeks.

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    Chief Ragusa- oh well, he still managed to win 2 kingdoms, make his relative the Pope and kick everyone's ass. As for military score- Bohemond 18, wifey 19, marshal 28
    grumphie- even Asclettin would need some casus bellis, even he would need to agree with truces and stuff
    Theotian- heh, that would have been interesting at least
    Dioltas- welcome aboard!
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  20. #220
    Lady of the North Star Demi Moderator Saithis's Avatar
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    Bohemond may have not been quite as great as Asclettin but he was still definitely a great ruler. The Normans can be proud to know that this kind of stern steel is what the de Hautevilles are made of.
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