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Thread: How I engineered a Catholic Papal Invasion CB on the Byzantine Empire

  1. #1

    How I engineered a Catholic Papal Invasion CB on the Byzantine Empire

    Hello! I'm Alerias, and you may remember me from my former "Nerf the Invasion CB" thread, where I annexed France, Iberia (leon), Poland and Hungary within the lifespan of the 1066 Holy Emperor.

    This time I'm playing a game as Apulia where I've essentially unified Italy, Croatia and North Africa, and crusaded for the Holy Land. Separating my Italo-Croatian possessions and my Mid-East Empire was a beefed up Byzantine empire, stretching from Dacia to Georgia to Beirut.

    Normally you can only get invasion CBs granted on countries which share the same faith. However theres no 'national faith' in CK, its all character-based, and in this case of course, based on the religion of the head of state. Therefore, I figured (correctly) that if I could produce a Catholic heir to the Byzantine throne, I could not only make him vulnerable to the Papacy (which loves me as a Crusader and "True Christian Knight") but also cause substantial havoc within the realm because surely that wouldnt go down too well with the vassals.

    Came in play the third heir to the Byzantine throne, an unmarried Greek/Orthodox youth, to which I've managed to marry my most stunning princess. She moved to Constantinople and bore him a son, of course, at which point I sent my best poisoner there... oh wait, no, he was already there pilfering Byzantine tech ... and killed my son-in-law. Immediately after I invited my daughter back home, and she brought the kid along. At this point, the baby was second in line for the throne, and the Emperor was getting old. (70+)

    Then, and this is the part where I think I was fairly clever, I raised the baby myself, and finally realized what all these ridiculously one sided events are good for. You surely all noticed many child-rearing events are basically "Choice A: Make him Temperate, Holy, Gregarious and the Pope falls in love with him" "Choice B: Make him Greedy, Glutonous and he wants to impregnate his sisters!". Well for once, I picked all the bad events.. cross-referencing closely with the traits of the Pope and putting a high value on everything that the Church would frown upon. Of course, in the process, the little brat became an Italian Catholic. 15 years later, the old Caesar had croaked, and the first in line for the Byzantine throne had not only crappy stats, but 6 of the 7 deadly sins.

    I was planning on killing his uncle in Byzantium but I didnt even need to. At 17 years old, my little monster naturally got on the throne. Lucky break. I immediately checked what the Pope thought of him: (-86). And on the seventh day, the King of Italy had finished his work of creation, saw that it was good, and so he rested from all work.

    The venerable Holy Crusader, liberator of the Holy Sepulcre, the King without sin, thus went to the little bishopric in Benevent from which the Pope ruled ever since his own father had taken the Papal states, and, with outrage on his face, told him about the monster sitting on the throne in Byzantium, and was immediately granted rights to invade 'In the name of God and the Blessed Virgin'.

    The task was all the more simple considering the little prince had about 7 rebellions on his hands. Apparently Italian Catholics and Greek Orthodoxy doesn't mix too well. At that point all I needed to do was give a swift kick in the door and the whole house came crashing down (Well okay, it still took 8 years to occupy all the Empire, and then 2 hours to appoint lords to every province, but it was worth it).

    Moral of the story : Invasion is still OP, but you've now learned a new trick: When the Pope likes a King too much to let you invade him, manufacture one that he wont. And when a country is of foreign faith, it will only remain so until you raise the heir to their throne yourself..
    Last edited by Alerias; 13-02-2012 at 23:05.

  2. #2
    Stories like this are what make me wish it were tomorrow
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  3. #3
    I like! Job well done! :-)
    I lay awake, and strap myself in the bed.
    Put a bulletproof vest on, and shoot myself in the head.


    What about interrealm alliances?

    Check out the Lotharingia and Lowland mod for CK2!

  4. #4
    Sergeant paracat's Avatar
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    I've read a few stories of CKII games now, this is by far the best.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Alerias View Post
    Hello! I'm Alerias, and you may remember me from my former "Nerf the Invasion CB" thread, where I annexed France, Iberia (leon), Poland and Hungary within the lifespan of the 1066 Holy Emperor.

    This time I'm playing a game as Apulia where I've essentially unified Italy, Croatia and North Africa, and crusaded for the Holy Land. Separating my Italo-Croatian possessions and my Mid-East Empire was a beefed up Byzantine empire, stretching from Dacia to Georgia to Beirut.

    Normally you can only get invasion CBs granted on countries which share the same faith. However theres no 'national faith' in CK, its all character-based, and in this case of course, based on the religion of the head of state. Therefore, I figured (correctly) that if I could produce a Catholic heir to the Byzantine throne, I could not only make him vulnerable to the Papacy (which loves me as a Crusader and "True Christian Knight") but also cause substantial havoc within the realm because surely that wouldnt go down too well with the vassals.

    Came in play the third heir to the Byzantine throne, an unmarried Greek/Orthodox youth, to which I've managed to marry my most stunning princess. She moved to Constantinople and bore him a son, of course, at which point I sent my best poisoner there... oh wait, no, he was already there pilfering Byzantine tech ... and killed my son-in-law. Immediately after I invited my daughter back home, and she brought the kid along. At this point, the baby was second in line for the throne, and the Emperor was getting old. (70+)

    Then, and this is the part where I think I was fairly clever, I raised the baby myself, and finally realized what all these ridiculously one sided events are good for. You surely all noticed many child-rearing events are basically "Choice A: Make him Temperate, Holy, Gregarious and the Pope falls in love with him" "Choice B: Make him Greedy, Glutonous and he wants to impregnate his sisters!". Well for once, I picked all the bad events.. cross-referencing closely with the traits of the Pope and putting a high value on everything that the Church would frown upon. Of course, in the process, the little brat became an Italian Catholic. 15 years later, the old Caesar had croaked, and the first in line for the Byzantine throne had not only crappy stats, but 6 of the 7 deadly sins.

    I was planning on killing his uncle in Byzantium but I didnt even need to. At 17 years old, my little monster naturally got on the throne. Lucky break. I immediately checked what the Pope thought of him: (-86). And on the seventh day, the King of Italy had finished his work of creation, saw that it was good, and so he rested from all work.

    The venerable Holy Crusader, liberator of the Holy Sepulcre, the King without sin, thus went to the little bishopric in Benevent from which the Pope ruled ever since his own father had taken the Papal states, and, with outrage on his face, told him about the monster sitting on the throne in Byzantium, and was immediately granted rights to invade 'In the name of God and the Blessed Virgin'.

    The task was all the more simple considering the little prince had about 7 rebellions on his hands. Apparently Italian Catholics and Greek Orthodoxy doesn't mix too well. At that point all I needed to do was give a swift kick in the door and the whole house came crashing down (Well okay, it still took 8 years to occupy all the Empire, and then 2 hours to appoint lords to every province, but it was worth it).

    Moral of the story : Invasion is still OP, but you've now learned a new trick: When the Pope likes a King too much to let you invade him, manufacture one that he wont. And when a country is of foreign faith, it will only remain so until you raise the heir to their throne yourself..
    Yes, but, the 64 million dollar question is : "How many times did you RELOAD to get to that point?" I just have a sneaking suspicion everything didn't work according to plan perfectly as the perfect plan never works in the long run.

  6. #6
    I do hope you rewarded your poor daughter with a wealthy duchy by way of apologizing for this ~20 year mission you sent her on.
    What other franchise could make a player nostalgic for consanguinity inheiritance law?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterofMagic View Post
    Yes, but, the 64 million dollar question is : "How many times did you RELOAD to get to that point?" I just have a sneaking suspicion everything didn't work according to plan perfectly as the perfect plan never works in the long run.
    Youre right, but this wasn't a particularly elaborate plan relying on alot of randomness. I got lucky with the Byzantine succession and the events I got with the kid, but I didn't reload. Honestly the amount of 'sins' the kid collected was totally overkill; All I really needed was one or two bad traits and turning him Catholic. The only point where this plan was risky was the assassinations I was planning to do, and it turned out I only had to kill one guy (my son in law). IIRC, I failed without getting caught once, and on the second attempt, killed him but got caught. Didnt reload tho, I just took the -10 and the 50 piety hit in stride, its part of the game. Thankfully son-in-law kills dont seem to trigger 'Kinslayer'.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Pode View Post
    I do hope you rewarded your poor daughter with a wealthy duchy by way of apologizing for this ~20 year mission you sent her on.
    Actually I matrinially married her to a nameless courtier with crazy stats in an effort to see what kind of superbaby that could produce and let them rot at Court afterwards

  9. #9
    eViL!
    I lay awake, and strap myself in the bed.
    Put a bulletproof vest on, and shoot myself in the head.


    What about interrealm alliances?

    Check out the Lotharingia and Lowland mod for CK2!

  10. #10
    Colonel Nazaroth's Avatar
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    I did the same thing in France as Toulouse.
    The king was like, "Hey train my heir to the throne"
    I'm like, "Ummm, sure?"
    Then it dawned on me... that I could do the exact same thing.
    Although not related, the fact that the kid was 'Ugly' (trait) also futhered my ambition to make the kid the worst King of France ever.

    So, after my 'awesome, pillar or light and holiness' son ascended and the 'debauched, inseminate mah sisters' ascended... it made an interesting situation.
    Then I became the King of France and didn't have to worry about Gavelkind anymore.
    ;P

    In that Civil War... noone sided with the King of France, even my neice in Normandy was on this. Granted he was having previous problems with neighouring vassals of Champagne and Berry already and his coffers and levies were depleted. When he called up mine, I decided it would be an excellent time to start the Civil War.

    Edit: I can't wait to save and actually have a full game.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Darrigan View Post
    eViL!
    My piety score says otherwise

  12. #12
    I'm glad I didn't live in a time when you guys were kings....evil just pure evil and hiding behind the Pope's robes. shame on you.

  13. #13
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    Pretty sure as long as they aren't of your dynasty (blooddrop), you can drop your son in laws and whatnots all you like... so long as you have the cash and don't mind getting caught once in a while. Sometimes I want to get caught so my more, unloyal vassals revolt and I can redistribute their lands.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Nazaroth View Post
    Pretty sure as long as they aren't of your dynasty (blooddrop), you can drop your son in laws and whatnots all you like... so long as you have the cash and don't mind getting caught once in a while. Sometimes I want to get caught so my more, unloyal vassals revolt and I can redistribute their lands.
    lol gamey tactics shame on you.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterofMagic View Post
    lol gamey tactics shame on you.
    Considering the most common 'Plot' is too murder your spouse, I don't know whether or not it is that gamey.
    Seeing as I don't 'save and reload', I tend to take things in stride regardless on how 'bad' I made the situation. ;p

    I remember trying assasinate someone 5 times with a 50% success rate, and 10% fail rate... I failed and was caught all 5 bloody times.
    On the plus side, the unloyal vassals were no longer vassals.
    On the downside, that Civil War lasted 5 years. :/

    (I also find it neccessary to murder off my kin, because dear god, I don't want them to be powerful to cause hell with gavelkind in place.)

    If anything, I was inpired by Justinian politics to get the more unloyal aspects of my regime to revolt. I see no problem, I just don't have a Hippodrome or anything as dramatic.
    Last edited by Nazaroth; 14-02-2012 at 00:03.
    Si Hoc Legere Scis Nimium Eruditionis Habes
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  16. #16
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    I want to see this movie!

  17. #17
    Major trajan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterofMagic View Post
    I'm glad I didn't live in a time when you guys were kings....evil just pure evil and hiding behind the Pope's robes. shame on you.
    And that is ahistorical in what way?
    Oh, yeah, what are you gonna do? Release the dogs? Or the bees? Or the dogs with bees in their mouth and when they bark, they shoot bees at you?

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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by trajan View Post
    And that is ahistorical in what way?
    I don't think the Diplomacy game itself could touch this game with a 10ft pole.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Alerias View Post
    Hello! I'm Alerias, and you may remember me from my former "Nerf the Invasion CB" thread, where I annexed France, Iberia (leon), Poland and Hungary within the lifespan of the 1066 Holy Emperor.

    This time I'm playing a game as Apulia where I've essentially unified Italy, Croatia and North Africa, and crusaded for the Holy Land. Separating my Italo-Croatian possessions and my Mid-East Empire was a beefed up Byzantine empire, stretching from Dacia to Georgia to Beirut.

    Normally you can only get invasion CBs granted on countries which share the same faith. However theres no 'national faith' in CK, its all character-based, and in this case of course, based on the religion of the head of state. Therefore, I figured (correctly) that if I could produce a Catholic heir to the Byzantine throne, I could not only make him vulnerable to the Papacy (which loves me as a Crusader and "True Christian Knight") but also cause substantial havoc within the realm because surely that wouldnt go down too well with the vassals.

    Came in play the third heir to the Byzantine throne, an unmarried Greek/Orthodox youth, to which I've managed to marry my most stunning princess. She moved to Constantinople and bore him a son, of course, at which point I sent my best poisoner there... oh wait, no, he was already there pilfering Byzantine tech ... and killed my son-in-law. Immediately after I invited my daughter back home, and she brought the kid along. At this point, the baby was second in line for the throne, and the Emperor was getting old. (70+)

    Then, and this is the part where I think I was fairly clever, I raised the baby myself, and finally realized what all these ridiculously one sided events are good for. You surely all noticed many child-rearing events are basically "Choice A: Make him Temperate, Holy, Gregarious and the Pope falls in love with him" "Choice B: Make him Greedy, Glutonous and he wants to impregnate his sisters!". Well for once, I picked all the bad events.. cross-referencing closely with the traits of the Pope and putting a high value on everything that the Church would frown upon. Of course, in the process, the little brat became an Italian Catholic. 15 years later, the old Caesar had croaked, and the first in line for the Byzantine throne had not only crappy stats, but 6 of the 7 deadly sins.

    I was planning on killing his uncle in Byzantium but I didnt even need to. At 17 years old, my little monster naturally got on the throne. Lucky break. I immediately checked what the Pope thought of him: (-86). And on the seventh day, the King of Italy had finished his work of creation, saw that it was good, and so he rested from all work.

    The venerable Holy Crusader, liberator of the Holy Sepulcre, the King without sin, thus went to the little bishopric in Benevent from which the Pope ruled ever since his own father had taken the Papal states, and, with outrage on his face, told him about the monster sitting on the throne in Byzantium, and was immediately granted rights to invade 'In the name of God and the Blessed Virgin'.

    The task was all the more simple considering the little prince had about 7 rebellions on his hands. Apparently Italian Catholics and Greek Orthodoxy doesn't mix too well. At that point all I needed to do was give a swift kick in the door and the whole house came crashing down (Well okay, it still took 8 years to occupy all the Empire, and then 2 hours to appoint lords to every province, but it was worth it).

    Moral of the story : Invasion is still OP, but you've now learned a new trick: When the Pope likes a King too much to let you invade him, manufacture one that he wont. And when a country is of foreign faith, it will only remain so until you raise the heir to their throne yourself..
    though it isn't usually used in this situation...pics or it didn't happen :P No seriously...please tell me you have pics to share with us

  20. #20
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    Bravo, sir Alerias. You have not only spread Italian influence all over the world, but you have also united the one true Faith! God smiles upon you and Heaven will be your reward. Deus Vult!

    Seriously, that was a real impressive piece of whoop-ass.

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