CKII - trait list and effects

**ash001** · 13-02-2012 12:22

For those interested, here's a list I compiled from the demo's traits file. You can see there's some nice variety (compared to CKI's list).
Of course, more traits could be added (via modding, something I'm tinkering with right now...), enhancing the role-play feel and possibly giving more depth to the game.
I only played the demo so far (never tried the original Cursaders), but I do feel the traits tend to get repetitive... Specially the "seven sins and virtues" traits - which is a very good idea, but stands out too much among the characters.

What do you think?

**Lord Valentine** · 13-02-2012 12:35

Nice work!
Thank you very much. I was actually a bit annoyed that the official manual didn't give you the actual effects.

**Dishonor** · 13-02-2012 12:45

Well done. Traits are very important for managing big empires like making all vassals heir content. Also game doesn't show very important effects like AI_Ambition and AI_honor.

It would be great, if someone makes lists haw to get trait, how to lose trait, and events that are available for character with given trait.

**Vernalagnia** · 13-02-2012 13:04

I like the trait system on the whole, but I think it could use expanding. I've written a pretty good amount of new traits, but I can't figure out how to display them properly on the UI, so I'm stalled for the moment.

**Heyomif** · 13-02-2012 13:29

I don't like how some traits are awesome, but their counterpart has no redeeming value. If you want a good character you'll always pick the same traits for everyone, but if the bad trait gave you +1 in some skill you would at least pick that trait when shaping a good steward for example.

**Dishonor** · 13-02-2012 14:07

Originally Posted by Heyomif

I don't like how some traits are awesome, but their counterpart has no redeeming value. If you want a good character you'll always pick the same traits for everyone, but if the bad trait gave you +1 in some skill you would at least pick that trait when shaping a good steward for example.

Yeah, there are many really good one, really bad one and few that can works either way.
ambitious - Really nasty. It can be good, if it is your char, but you shouldn't teach others with this char.
lustful, hedonist - Good for your wife.
deceitful, cynical, paranoid, cruel, envious - Bad ones. Good for spymasters.

Can congenital traits be inherited from parents? What are the odds? 50 percents? I'm trying to get genius, strong, attractive into my dynasty gens. I'm not sure, if it possible. It's hard to test with demo.

**ash001** · 13-02-2012 14:35

@Dishonor:
I suspect the reason why the game doesn't announce effects like AI-honor or AI-ambition in-game is to help with the immersion - you wouldn't really notice it until you were well into the game (and, even then, I'm guessing the effects are very faint, almost subliminal), which should be a nice surprise to the player.

Oh, and I haven't figured out the congenital percentage - I know they can be inherited but not sure on the odds.

@Vernalagnia: I'm thinking on the same lines... but it is something to be carefully considered.
A lot of work by the devs went into the event chains, the giving and taking of traits and balancing it all - so just adding more traits wouldn't mean much -- unless a trait "system" integrating the new traits would be adopted to take care of it.
But, again, what was the problem of displaying them on the UI?

@Heyomif: Yes, I tend to agree with you - but mostly because of some events that tend to pair up a good trait against a bad one...
...in these cases, there's not much choice to be made, I think.
In any case, adding more traits could mean more "reasonable"/average traits - having good and bad effects... Or at least less extreme ones. Getting a character that is slothful, craven, gluttonous and envious is not much fun, specially if this is not uncommon.

**old dog** · 13-02-2012 14:50

Thanks!

**XtraJones** · 13-02-2012 15:01

Originally Posted by old dog

Thanks!

+1

**Wulfram** · 13-02-2012 15:15

Originally Posted by Heyomif

I don't like how some traits are awesome, but their counterpart has no redeeming value. If you want a good character you'll always pick the same traits for everyone, but if the bad trait gave you +1 in some skill you would at least pick that trait when shaping a good steward for example.

The balancing should be in the events choices which pick the traits, not the traits themselves.

**ash001** · 13-02-2012 18:53

Yeah, you're right. Traits tend to be positive or negative, I've been listing a few to mod (like vain, procastinator, resentful, optimistic, disciplined, funny, and so on) and it's easy to see which ones you'd prefer for your character over the others - even without seeing any effects.

The events, in this case, can make the difference and challenge you into some tough decisions.

**jossief** · 13-02-2012 18:58

I think some of the bad traits are to make genuinely bad rulers, which is certainly historical. It's true for your own character it would be more interesting if the choices were more balanced. For instance, it might be interesting if Slothful helped keep you out of trouble and live longer, or if Slow helped you relate to the common man or something. But then Michael Doukas and his father wouldn't be incompetent like they are currently.

**ash001** · 13-02-2012 21:39

Again, I don't mind the positive and negative traits, not even the most extreme ones... The thing is, right now, characters can get several of those, and if you're playing for some time, it's starts to get repetitive seeing the different combinations between craven/slothful/envious and kind/humble/patient...
Of course, there's more traits than those, but the "seven sins and virtues" tend to be very prominent.

Still, the game offers great moddability, so it's just a question of figuring out a trait "system" that would work out well with the current traits and also allow for some expansion... I'm considering a few ideas, let's see how this goes.

**Tilarium** · 13-02-2012 23:06

Nice thanks! I was getting annoyed with the popups saying my ruler would get this trait or that trait. I'd go into the character list and try and find one with those triats so I could decide better which one I wanted.

**surihtanil** · 14-02-2012 00:04

Thank you

**praguepride** · 14-02-2012 00:48

I suspect that events tied to traits can be a balancing factor. So while Zealous > Cynical, it might make you more vulnerable to pope persuasion or make your crusade penalty even bigger.

I suspect that traits have effects beyond +1 to this stat, -2 to this other stat, which is good but making it hidden makes people feel a little underwhelmed.

So what are the ones that have no redeeming values and what redeeming values COULD they have? What benefit could laziness have? The only thing I can think of is that it could be a + modifier to your subordinates because if you're too lazy to act, you're too lazy to enforce anytyhing and they can get away with more stuff. Just a minor benefit but +X to monthly councilor opinions?

**CyberSpyder** · 14-02-2012 00:58

Originally Posted by praguepride

So what are the ones that have no redeeming values and what redeeming values COULD they have? What benefit could laziness have? The only thing I can think of is that it could be a + modifier to your subordinates because if you're too lazy to act, you're too lazy to enforce anytyhing and they can get away with more stuff. Just a minor benefit but +X to monthly councilor opinions?

I'm making a little tweak mod that, among other things, gives some counterbalance to the totally negative traits. For Slothful, I made it give +1 learning (laze about reading) and +1 intrigue (accustomed to getting others to take care of things for you).