It actually works like that 
? I thought it was way more random.
I guess I'll keep charinfo on all the time now and check mah genes
? I thought it was way more random.I guess I'll keep charinfo on all the time now and check mah genes
Inbred
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That's more of a family shrubbery than a family treeAustralia, not Austria
Anyway, you're not allowed to marry your parents or siblings (though I think half siblings might be okay). Frankly, a single generation of parent or sibling marriage is probably fine, anyway.
If you want inbred, you're going to have to work at it the old fashioned way: by crafting a family tree taller than it is wide.
That's more of a family shrubbery than a family tree
I always found this cheers me up. The absurdity of it is mind blowing.
Charles Grandmother was simultaniously also his great-grandmother XD
As a counterexample to the Habsburgs, when inbreeding comes out right (or at least not that bad), the Ptolemaic Dynasty of Egypt:
The Habsburgs look pretty tame by comparison in my opinion.
The Habsburgs look pretty tame by comparison in my opinion.
Those are two different Mary Annes of Bavaria. Even the Habsburgs didn't marry mothers to sons.
It actually works like that
I guess I'll keep charinfo on all the time now and check mah genes
Well, I've seen inbred children in my dynasty when a dynasty member married a lowborn. The short genetic string still makes it possible to have random inbred children. In fact, I've seen supposedly congenital traits pop up randomly in children of parents without those traits all the time.
@ firelordzuko
I am pretty sure A_Dane refers to Margarita of Austria. If you look at her you will see that she was grandmother and great-grandmother in one person...:wacko:
I am pretty sure A_Dane refers to Margarita of Austria. If you look at her you will see that she was grandmother and great-grandmother in one person...:wacko:
As a counterexample to the Habsburgs, when inbreeding comes out right (or at least not that bad), the Ptolemaic Dynasty of Egypt:
The Habsburgs look pretty tame by comparison in my opinion.
I think after Cleopatra I and Ptolemy V, it gets really crazy.
Am I reading this right Cleopatra II is both Ptolemy VIII's sister,mother and wife?
All congenital traits has a base chance to spawn (most is at 5%) and another chance to be inherited (15% or 25% mostly), so seeing them pop up is expected.
10 generations from Ptolemy I to Cleopatra VII ... and only **ONE** person (Cleopatra I) brought fresh blood into the family shrubbery?? Everyone else is traced to Ptolemy I and Berenice I.As a counterexample to the Habsburgs, when inbreeding comes out right (or at least not that bad), the Ptolemaic Dynasty of Egypt:
The Habsburgs look pretty tame by comparison in my opinion.
Amazing that they didn't run into genetic problems until the end. But then again they probably had only healthy people at the top of the family shrubbery, not someone like Juana the Mad. Or (not unlikely IMHO): Many of the women in that family tree actually took lovers from outside the family and those were the biological fathers of their children... not their brothers, nephews and what have you. Thereby maintaining some sort of fresh blood influx into the family shrubbery.
Even though its not technically incest, I always find it amusing that his mother is his father ex-wifes child by his cousin.
That is indeed the case
You can also look at Charles II's grandfather phillip III, HIS grandfather also happens to be his great-grandfather
EDIT: @Flair: I didn't even know that
Freaky Habsburg fact: Carlos II the Inbred also had a sister, Margerita Maria. She was not quite as deformed as he was although she, too, had a fair share of medical conditions that left her frail. To make her life even more miserable, she was married to HER UNCLE Emperor Leopold of Austria.
WAY TO GO HABSBURGS!! Your lineage (in Spain) is about to die out from inbreeding, and to whom do you marry your last living daughter?? TO HER UNCLE. (who was also her cousin) :wacko:
WAY TO GO HABSBURGS!! Your lineage (in Spain) is about to die out from inbreeding, and to whom do you marry your last living daughter?? TO HER UNCLE. (who was also her cousin) :wacko:
I think just sister and wife. Ptolemy VIII is the last child of Cleo I and Ptolemy V the way i tree that tree. Infact, from what I can make out, it was only ever sister and brother. No parent child children i can read.
Nicely illustrates how much Cleo VII got around though XD
Nicely illustrates how much Cleo VII got around though XD
Seeing that Habsburg tree made me curious about the actual math, so I calculated the chances of Charles II having a double pair of recessive genes if a Philip or Joanna had a single one between them:
It is interesting that the chance for a single gene expressing is still only 1%, and 1.5% at its peak. But I'm guessing the key is that in the first two generations, the chance of it expressing is 0%. And this is for a single gene. If there are numerous such genes the 0% chance remains 0%, but the 1% chances start adding up.
Anyways I figured I'd share my math in case anyone else was also curious.
It is interesting that the chance for a single gene expressing is still only 1%, and 1.5% at its peak. But I'm guessing the key is that in the first two generations, the chance of it expressing is 0%. And this is for a single gene. If there are numerous such genes the 0% chance remains 0%, but the 1% chances start adding up.
Anyways I figured I'd share my math in case anyone else was also curious
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@Zoston: For those of us illiterate in science, can you explain to us what all that means?
(And could you try that on Cleopatra for the Ptolemaic family tree above?)
(And could you try that on Cleopatra for the Ptolemaic family tree above?)
That's how I read it too. The ideal of the sister-wife goes back to pre-dynastic times. Isis, Osiris, Nepthys and Set were all siblings and married each other, so it was something enshrined in religion for almost the entire duration of the kingdom. How often it was practised I don't actually know, since most pharoahs had multiple wives, but it has been suggested that depictions of "The Heretic Pharoah" Akhnaton are a result of him being an inbred freak. The Ptolemaic dynasty rather thoroughly embraced the ideal of the Ennead in order to legitimise their rule.
The basic genetic theory that all genes are in pairs. Each gene has different types, say blue eyes versus brown eyes verses green eyes.
One gene is always (well, not always, but usually) stronger than others, meaning that it is the shown trait if both are present. If "A" was brown eyes and "a" blue, everyone with a AA or Aa code would have brown, blue only showing up on "aa", but allowing the gene to still be passed on. This is the whole skipping a generation thing.
Here, he is showing the possibility for any particular gene combination to show up throughout the family, as long as the original ancestors had one parent with the AA and the other with the Aa codes in whatever trait is being tracked.
The only problem I have with this is he assumes the outsides in the family (Christian II of Denmark, Isabella of Portugal, etc) would automatically be AA, which can't be right.
When you're talking about people being 'inbred' you talk about extremely rare genes (everyone by default healthy -> AA). The reason your dynasty becomes inbred is because the very rare 'a' gene, well, just check the picture Zoston uploaded
WOOHOO!!!! \o/
As far as I know, this theory has already been refuted and it was stated that those DNA strings are used for portraits only.