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Thread: Question about the royal house of Denmark.

  1. #1

    Question about the royal house of Denmark.

    I've been wondering for a while about the Yvling dynasty in the demo, which King Svend of Denmark seems to be part of. I know a bit of Danish history myself and didn't recall any dynasty of that name.
    Upon further research I've found no evidence that this dynasty ever existed, which left me bewildered I've simply found no trace of the House Yvling or any similar spellings of the name. So my question is; why is the dynasty called Yvling in the game and what historical basis does the name 'Yvling' have? Do I simply suck at researching?

    Another thing is that several Danish kings of the House Knytling, more specifically the ones who also ruled Norway, are shown as 'Kings of Norway' rather than 'of Denmark'. Is this simply a coincidence/mistake or due to a quirk within the engine?

    I am very curious about these things, and any clarification would be appreciated

  2. #2
    Sergeant znrch's Avatar
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    Interesting. I'm curious about this as well.

  3. #3
    Major Maleficus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capital N View Post
    Another thing is that several Danish kings of the House Knytling, more specifically the ones who also ruled Norway, are shown as 'Kings of Norway' rather than 'of Denmark'. Is this simply a coincidence/mistake or due to a quirk within the engine?
    I've just gone and added all the historical holders to the Kingdom of England title, and when I booted it up to check out my work I noticed, unexpectedly, that Svend Tveskaeg, Knud and Hardeknud now have England as their primary title. Now Knud's view may have been pretty favourable towards his English crown, but I'm not entirely convinced he'd put it above his Danish one if pushed, and Historians certainly almost never do. Svend and Hardeknud without a doubt would've called themselves kings of Denmark first. The other Danish king of England, Harald Harefoot, of course only held the one kingdom, so there's no issue there. Anyway, it's an odd issue and I can offer no immediate explanation for it myself (the only thing I can think of is maybe there's a hidden prestige value hidden somewhere in a text file) but I just thought I'd point it out

  4. #4
    Shouldn't the dynasty be simply "Estridsson"/"Estridsen"?

  5. #5
    Maleficus: It is odd indeed. Being Danish myself, it's a bit distracting that the old Danish kings aren't shown with Denmark as their primary title

    Quote Originally Posted by Heyomif View Post
    Shouldn't the dynasty be simply "Estridsson"/"Estridsen"?
    That's exactly what I thought.

  6. #6
    Konungr of Scandinavia DarkieBabZ's Avatar
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    Yes.

    I have been wondering the same. I guess there is something behind the madness and paradox must have a reason for this (maybe its the correct name) but my knowledge tells me it should be Estridsen

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Danish_monarchs

    Wiki also agrees.

    As for the fault in primary titles etc. I guess its a either flaw in the game or well maybe they intended it otherwise for some reason.


    Also notice that House Gorm is Knytling (never really heard about the knytling thing before I tried CK1)
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Capital N View Post
    I've been wondering for a while about the Yvling dynasty in the demo, which King Svend of Denmark seems to be part of. I know a bit of Danish history myself and didn't recall any dynasty of that name.
    Upon further research I've found no evidence that this dynasty ever existed, which left me bewildered I've simply found no trace of the House Yvling or any similar spellings of the name. So my question is; why is the dynasty called Yvling in the game and what historical basis does the name 'Yvling' have?
    The Ylving family name should probably be understood as "the sons of Ulf", a pointer to Ulf Jarl, the father of King Sweyn who rules Denmark at the start of the game.

  8. #8
    Field Marshal Nick B II's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkieBabZ View Post
    As for the fault in primary titles etc. I guess its a either flaw in the game or well maybe they intended it otherwise for some reason.
    Why do you say it's a flaw?

    There's apparently no section for primary title, and there's no way for the game to display two at a time, so when somebody has more then one it has to pick one. It's got to do that algorithmically, from info in the game files.

    And the algorithm's got to work for two-Kingdom countries like England-Wales, France-Navarra, and Hungary-Croatia. Which probably means making the bigger de jure kingdom the main title, which means any King of Denmark, etc. is probably gonna be known by the etc.

    Nick

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hundhedning View Post
    The Ylving family name should probably be understood as "the sons of Ulf", a pointer to Ulf Jarl, the father of King Sweyn who rules Denmark at the start of the game.
    I find that the name Ylving is much too similar (actually identical) to Ylfing, the latter being an old prestigious geatish dynasty/clan. I would have prefered Knýtling.
    Last edited by Boblof; 12-02-2012 at 18:08.
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  10. #10
    Second Lieutenant Enokmik's Avatar
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    If you go to the Dynasties.txt the /common/ foulder you will find this under Ylving:
    Code:
    487 = {
    	name="Ylving" # af Estrid-ætten
    	culture = danish
    	coat_of_arms = {
    		template = 0
    		layer = {
    			texture = 3
    			texture_internal = 48
    			emblem = 0
    			color = 0
    			color = 0
    			color = 0
    		}
    	}
    }
    So it look like the devs have some knowledge about the Royal family of Denmark & Sweden.

  11. #11
    Augustus of the North DreadLindwyrm's Avatar
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    The devs tried to avoid Patronymic house names, unless there were no alternatives.
    *This space deliberately left blank*

  12. #12
    Konungr of Scandinavia DarkieBabZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hundhedning View Post
    The Ylving family name should probably be understood as "the sons of Ulf", a pointer to Ulf Jarl, the father of King Sweyn who rules Denmark at the start of the game.
    I ment when it choose the English title over the Danish one, when the ruler is from a Danish house (it struck me as odd) but yes, its most likely due to gameplay things.. the flaw was actually more intended on the name of the house, but it seems both boblof and enokmik can give us a reason why
    to unite scandinavian as one that is my true goal in life...
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  13. #13
    Konungr of Scandinavia DarkieBabZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enokmik View Post
    If you go to the Dynasties.txt the /common/ foulder you will find this under Ylving:
    Code:
    487 = {
    	name="Ylving" # af Estrid-ætten
    	culture = danish
    	coat_of_arms = {
    		template = 0
    		layer = {
    			texture = 3
    			texture_internal = 48
    			emblem = 0
    			color = 0
    			color = 0
    			color = 0
    		}
    	}
    }
    So it look like the devs have some knowledge about the Royal family of Denmark & Sweden.
    Well surely there is are a reason, I would still like to know what reason.. if you look at the swedish houses ingame they all fit the "in my opinion" known houses and even the exact same one listed on wiki, so why is it different with the Danish ones?
    to unite scandinavian as one that is my true goal in life...
    Remember the Kalmar Union
    //Darkie

    He who does not understand a joke, he does not understand Danish.
    //Georg Brandes

  14. #14
    I thought it was the English name for the first royal house of Sweden (they might have had links links with the Danes too), Ynlinga ätten. The last word translates to house of.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Maleficus View Post
    I've just gone and added all the historical holders to the Kingdom of England title, and when I booted it up to check out my work I noticed, unexpectedly, that Svend Tveskaeg, Knud and Hardeknud now have England as their primary title. Now Knud's view may have been pretty favourable towards his English crown, but I'm not entirely convinced he'd put it above his Danish one if pushed, and Historians certainly almost never do. Svend and Hardeknud without a doubt would've called themselves kings of Denmark first. The other Danish king of England, Harald Harefoot, of course only held the one kingdom, so there's no issue there. Anyway, it's an odd issue and I can offer no immediate explanation for it myself (the only thing I can think of is maybe there's a hidden prestige value hidden somewhere in a text file) but I just thought I'd point it out
    It's very simple really. England has more de jure counties than Denmark. Similarly, a king of both England and France, that keeps England as his main title while he's still alive, will have France as his main title. It's not that big a deal. Maybe in a future patch, they'll have the game remember each person's primary title, but it's probably not worth the trouble doing that for every single dead guy, there's thousands of them and I'd rather PI worked on actual content/bug fixes than cosmetic issues. But maybe that's just me.

  16. #16
    Lord of Misfits Carewolf2's Avatar
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    I hope this thread is not too old to bring up this subject. Ylving really makes no sense at all. It is an unrelated geatish house of a different era.

    Ylving is obviously used to refer to the house of Estridsen, but if we are to avoid these name and subhouses, then it belongs to the house of Gorm, aka the Jelling dynasty (the house of Gorm was later renamed to knytlinga because Canutte was the most famous king of that house, but CK2 doesn't do house renames).

    Since Estrid was the sister of Canutte, she should be of the same dynasty as him, and since Svend tooks his name from his mother, we chould interpret that in CK2 terms as a matrilinear marriage.

    So either rename Ylving to Estridsen, or merge knytlinga and Ylving to the house of Gorm or dynasty of Jelling. House of Gorm is the most commonly used term, but I personally think Jelling sounds more CK2'ish.

    Any thoughts? Ylving is obviously a mistake, but should we treat this issue as a bug, or something to be fixed in mods only?

  17. #17
    Second Lieutenant Chief Iacid's Avatar
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    According to the information in Wikipedia about Danish regents, the first listed dynasty is the Knytling dynasty, after that the Ylving dynasty succeeded.

    It appears that the dynasties get their name after the first king's father (after altering the vowel and adding "ing"):

    First king of the "Knytlings": Gorm the Old - son to Knut I --> Knytling (from Knut)
    First king of the "Ylvings": Sven Estridsen - son to Ulf Torgilsson --> Ylving (from Ulf)

    So maybe it's correct as it is in the game. If the information in Wiki is correct, that is.

  18. #18
    Colonel Beric Dondarion's Avatar
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    In the files you can see next to the Ylving it says af Estridsen. Theres obviously a reason they changed it.
    Who put the stars in the sky? Coyote will say he did it himself, and it is not a lie.

    You should probably be reading Gunnerkrigg Court.

  19. #19
    Lord of Misfits Carewolf2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Iacid View Post
    According to the information in Wikipedia about Danish regents, the first listed dynasty is the Knytling dynasty, after that the Ylving dynasty succeeded.

    It appears that the dynasties get their name after the first king's father (after altering the vowel and adding "ing"):

    First king of the "Knytlings": Gorm the Old - son to Knut I --> Knytling (from Knut)
    First king of the "Ylvings": Sven Estridsen - son to Ulf Torgilsson --> Ylving (from Ulf)

    So maybe it's correct as it is in the game. If the information in Wiki is correct, that is.
    Which wikipedia is that? The one I use, like the houses as "House of Gorm" and "House of Estridsen". A google search on "Ylving" brings up only CK2 information, and one wikipedia article on a geatish noble.

    In fact, I found this thread because it is the number one hit on Google for Ylving. The most linked information of Ylving is in other words, that it is a mistake in CK2.

    Also please read the article on Knytling again. It is named at Knud den store (Canute), using it for Gorm the Old is an anachronism.

  20. #20
    OT iconoclast StephenT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carewolf2 View Post
    Which wikipedia is that? The one I use, like the houses as "House of Gorm" and "House of Estridsen".
    I'm guessing it's the Swedish Wikipedia. See here:
    http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lista_%...marks_regenter

    Sven Estridsson is listed as the first king from the Ylvingaätten, or House of Ylving. Presumably that's what the Danish royal house is known as in Sweden. The name comes from his father Ulf. In other words it's not a "mistake", it's because Paradox are Swedish.

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