I tried playing as Count Hoel of Nantes...

sirbruce

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• Feb 9, 2012

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• #1

So, you start out with two counties, and your brother-in-law is Duke of Brittany. But, he's childless and unmarried; you're married to his heir, the Duchess of Brittany. And you two already have a son of your own. So everything is set!

First, kill your brother-in-law. Then your wife inherits the Duchy, and you become Duke. Unfortunately, though, you don't have any powers of the Duke; just the title. And you can't ask your wife to give it to you, because the Ducal Laws of France don't allow it. So you're stuck. Luckily your son will inherit both your counties and the Dukedom, so at this point you have a couple of options. You can kill your wife, but that just makes your son the Duke, now your leige, and under the control of a Regent. Another option is to try to get yourself killed by going on hunts or whatnot. But eventually your son will take over the dynasty.

Unfortunately even though Brittany is independent, the Ducal Laws of France still apply, and you're stuck with Gavelkind Inheritance even though all your counties are Primogeniture. You can give all your counties to your son, but once the Duke dies the counties just get split up again. Not really sure what to do at that point.

This seems to be an unfortunate limitation of the game; France's ducal inheritence laws really shouldn't apply to Brittany but it seems like they have to.

 

DreadLindwyrm

Augustus of the North

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• Feb 9, 2012

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• #2

You should be able to change your inheritance laws. The only problem is that they are limited by the crown authority of France, since you are de jure part of France. (No immediate jumps to primogeniture).

 

sirbruce

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• Feb 9, 2012

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• #3

When I click on the laws for the Duchy it only says "The Crown Laws of the Kingdom of France apply in the Duchy of Brittany" and I can't see them. Are you saying that's because I'm still an Earl? But I should still see a list of them, just like when I see the Laws of the Kingdom of France.

 

Fintilgin

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• Feb 9, 2012

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• #4

This drove me up the wall when I tried Brittany.

What's the point of being 'independent' if I'm still affected by the de jure laws of 'my' kingdom.

 

galdor123

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• Feb 9, 2012

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• #5

Oh, this might be the answer to my problem as king of poland... I could not change to primogeniture (last condition was red) and could not figure out why. I guess that a part of Poland is de jure part of the HRE, so I am affected by the HRE crown laws. Is this correct?

 

Gabool

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• Feb 9, 2012

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• #6

You are not correct.
You must have high or absolute crown authority in order to change into primogeniture. Also, Poland isn't part of the de jure HRE

 

Subcomandante

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• Feb 9, 2012

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• #7

Gabool said:

You are not correct.
You must have high or absolute crown authority in order to change into primogeniture. Also, Poland isn't part of the de jure HRE

Click to expand...

But why? What RP reason can we find?

Ahh, It's because of power concentration. Nobody else likes that that's why you need authority. Seniority is medium CA minimum, but that's not so bad because the ruler throughput is expected to be higher. Then you're not stuck for decades with one ruler who can use all that time to consolidate even more.

 

Onedreamer

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• Feb 9, 2012

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• #8

sirbruce said:

Unfortunately even though Brittany is independent, the Ducal Laws of France still apply, and you're stuck with Gavelkind Inheritance even though all your counties are Primogeniture. You can give all your counties to your son, but once the Duke dies the counties just get split up again. Not really sure what to do at that point.

Click to expand...

Only one heir will inherit the ducal title, the others will have a claim, so I don't see where's the problem.

 

Ruwaard

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• Feb 9, 2012

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• #9

Gabool said:

You are not correct.
You must have high or absolute crown authority in order to change into primogeniture. Also, Poland isn't part of the de jure HRE

Click to expand...

You can have an event to change to primogeniture before that, but otherwise you can't make the decision to change to primogeniture, unless you meet certain criteria.

 

Gabool

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• Feb 9, 2012

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• #10

Another characters plot could also change your succession into primogeniture, but since neither the event nor the plot are under your control (unless you use the console) the decision is the only guaranteed way to change into primogeniture.

If you want to change into primogeniture in an area with a existing king you'll have to change the crown authority into high or absolute. If your title's de jure area is in a kingless land you can change the laws without any CA restrictions

 

U

unmerged(169164)

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• Feb 9, 2012

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• #11

Fintilgin said:

This drove me up the wall when I tried Brittany.

What's the point of being 'independent' if I'm still affected by the de jure laws of 'my' kingdom.

Click to expand...

Maybe, it gives the possibility to strike alliances (possible when not independent?) which could help to break free.

Not being sucked into your liege wars. Not troops to provide to liege. No taxation probably either.

Brittany was no more a kingdom at that time.

Conan II died the same year as the game start, no known heir, probably betrayed by one vassal, while he was expanding westwards to catch up with William the bastard.

 

unmerged(121326)

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• Feb 10, 2012

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• #12

I'm pretty sure having Brittany as a de-jure part of France is somewhat of an anachronism for the time period. It might be better to mod it to be its own de-jure kingdom, but, obviously, un-formed: only the most extremely powerful Breton Duke would be able to spend buttloads of money and piety and declare himself a king. No Duke of Brittany was ever able to do that IRL, but that's the beauty of Paradox games...

 

unmerged(209891)

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• Feb 10, 2012

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• #13

I don't like the way crown authority works right now. Geography shouldn't mean that the laws of the King of France affect land that he has 0 control over.

 

Hidden Legend

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• Feb 10, 2012

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• #14

How about instead of thinking of it as the King of France's law we think of it as being de jure custom of the franks/ bretons and other affilates that they share these customs and that going against them happens to be difficult unless it starts to become the norm in the biggest regional power of the shared culture in this instance france. Rulers often imitate who they are competing with as not to lose an advantage.

 

unmerged(209891)

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• Feb 10, 2012

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• #15

But what if a totally different culture owns one of the provinces...as a swedish duke, for example, one of my vassals could have a province in de-jure France and it would still be subject to French laws and French crown authority :/

 

DreadLindwyrm

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• Feb 10, 2012

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• #16

Or, you could be the king of England and hold land that is de jure under the control of France, and for which the king of France tries to summon you to do homage? You could have to rule their by different laws to the ones you have managed to install in England.

Oh wait... that happened...

 

Secret Master

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• Feb 10, 2012

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• #17

Regarding the OPs problem with inheritance.

Why not switch to elective law? That should be available even at the worst crown authority. No gavelkind problems or benefits, but you have to kind of monitor your succession a bit more. Still, if you are small, just make sure you own most of the counties and give your designated heir a county so he can vote for himself. You should be all set.

 

sirbruce

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• Feb 10, 2012

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• #18

Onedreamer said:

Only one heir will inherit the ducal title, the others will have a claim, so I don't see where's the problem.

Click to expand...

Gavelkind divides *all* titles among children, not just the Ducal title. All the county inheritances he obtained which are Primogeniture will get divied back up among all the children once the Duke dies.

 

sirbruce

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• Feb 10, 2012

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• #19

Secret Master said:

Regarding the OPs problem with inheritance.

Why not switch to elective law? That should be available even at the worst crown authority. No gavelkind problems or benefits, but you have to kind of monitor your succession a bit more. Still, if you are small, just make sure you own most of the counties and give your designated heir a county so he can vote for himself. You should be all set.

Click to expand...

As a Duke, you can't change any Ducal inheritance laws when you're under CA. Changing your county laws only apply when county leaders die; when the DUKE dies under Gavelkind, ALL titles get divied up, including all the Primogeniture and Elective counties you collected.

 

unmerged(209891)

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• Feb 10, 2012

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• #20

DreadLindwyrm said:

Or, you could be the king of England and hold land that is de jure under the control of France, and for which the king of France tries to summon you to do homage? You could have to rule their by different laws to the ones you have managed to install in England.

Oh wait... that happened...

Click to expand...

Thats not exactly the same case. William began as a French duke. If I am an enemy of france and take one of their provinces through war, 100 years later that province is still going to be run under French laws, because the devs have decided that this area on the map is "france", no matter what happens in the span of 400 years. Thats weird.