newest beta patch?
Find what they cant get, is your industry causing your pops to starve?
Find what they cant get, is your industry causing your pops to starve?
AHD Economy Discussion
- Thread starter HeilLoki
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Newest beta patch. It seems they aren't getting almost anything. I tried lowering their taxes to 0 but it didn't seem to help. I've only got 2 factories so it can't be that either. I noticed there's a major European war going on, maybe that's the cause? Edit: Waited until the war was over, didn't seem to resolve the situation either.
Artisans will get outcompeted by factories sooner or later. You might help them out by lowering tariffs (if they use imported raw materials) though.
You still need to add in something to figure out the distances etc. Or are you just suggesting we charge 20% shipping fee regardless of where the buyer and seller are? In which case, yes, it's easy, but it's also utterly pointless
Things produced outside Haiti are going to require more shipping to get to consumers inside Haiti than things produced inside it. Why is including this effect pointless?
charging shipping regardless of where the buyer is when we have no way of telling the distance is useless
You do know where the buyer is. You also know whether the seller is in the same place or not. You can charge if they are not in the same place and not charge if they are.
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If we were going to include a shiupping fee, then I would hope it doesn't take the form of a simple 20% tax on WM trades. Besides, why should it cost 20% more to ship a machine part from, say, Bavaria to Wurtemburg, but less to move the same machine part from Poland to Vladivostok? It's moving several thousand times as far, yet it's cheaper to ship it...?
You don't know where it comes from. All you know is which market it comes from. Your purchase isn't a good from a place, its an average across all the producers selling into the world market. You could do a calculation to come up with an average distance, but I doubt the complexity would be worth it. You might as well assume that the average over the rest of the world is the same for all products and all purchasers and keep it simple. Its only worth doing a detailed calculation if you actually are modelling whether you buy that machine part from Bavaria at £100 (plus £5 shipping) or from Vladivostok at £95 (plus £15 shipping).
You equally might as well not bother, which is the point I was making. Unless there is a point of departure, shipping costs would be near-pointless. After all, it makes no sense whatsoever for the British to get goods from Australia or India for free, but have to pay shipping costs from an independent Wales. It just acts as a tariff.
To be honest, i don't think Paradox Interactive (or any other company) can manage to create a good Victoria II game. The game simply demands to much: Good and realistic economic and political systems. Things like that must be hell to simulate in a game.
It wouldn't make sense if you could buy from an independent Wales, but you can't. You buy from everywhere inside equally, and you buy from everywhere outside equally. There quite clearly is a difference in transportation requirements between these two cases for the vast majority of countries in the game, and you could use it as a basis for assigning transport costs.
There are lots of benefits that just this simple addition to the code could make in terms of making the economy more realistic. By assiging different fractions to different commodities, you could make some commodities much more important to have to produce locally than others, which is indeed the case. Cement does not get traded internationally in any volume. Whack the transportation cost for cement up to 95% and you get a much more realistic match of cement production with consumption. A substantial proportion of the population did make their living by moving stuff around. Put a transportation cost in, and they now have a place in the game.
Its not a tariff. A tariff is a transfer of money to the government. Its a consumption of resources. It would mean that a higher proportion of economic activity would occur within countries, but that's the point. Transport was costly. Economic activity was much less distributed around the world than Vic2 has it. Why would you put transport costs in for any other reason than to sort that out?
On problem is that AHD does not have service industries. That's more or less what we are wrestling with. Railroads/infrastructure just have an initial cost. Banks don't even have a cost at all; they are the most computerized banks in the history of the world, as they employ no people and have no physical vaults. It's a goldbug's worst nightmare.
What about a clipper and/or steamer "tax" on all goods sold off-continent? I know overseas possessions have a support cost, but perhaps an extension of that for overseas sales would do something to simulate this cost.
What about a clipper and/or steamer "tax" on all goods sold off-continent? I know overseas possessions have a support cost, but perhaps an extension of that for overseas sales would do something to simulate this cost.
....Why can't you buy goods from Wales if you could release it...?
Anyway, the point is that there's shouldn't be free goods transportation between an overseas Empire and the metropole, if we want to charge people transport costs for buying from their neighbours. It's too abstract. It's just a tariff - and it IS a tariff, even though the government doesn't get the money, as it's a surcharge on imports - and one that would act as a collosal money sink, too. V2 has no merchant POP, so there's nowhere for the money to go.
You may as well just make a good called 'transport' and charge it as maintainence to everything in the game. All POPs would need it, all factories would require some, even building stuff would. Then we'd have transport 'factories', so at least the money is going somewhere, rather than disappearing into thin air. And even that's a dreadful solution.
Let's be honest, 'transport' requires moving an item from point A to point B, and we do not HAVE a point A. A blanket cost for moving things from Cloud A to point B is a dreadful oversimplification and really wouldn't add as many positive aspects to the game as it would create problems.
I've got a bit of an odd situation in my current game and I'm wondering if anybody else has experienced it
Around 1860 all my factories started losing money because they were not selling all of their goods. Checking the trade screen, most manufactured goods currently seem to have an actual sold that is ~70% of their WM supply. The problem is that only three countries(UK, NGF and France) are selling any manufactured goods because they have the most prestige and also produce approximately 70% of all manufactured goods. Now everyone except for these three have almost zero industry.
The top industry scores look something like this:
UK ~325
NGF ~300
France ~300
US ~25
Austria ~15
Canada(me) ~10
It's just really frustrating because every single factory I have is in the red and quickly closes. I'm currently trying to attain 3rd in prestige but its going slow. Is there any other way to sell your own goods before the more prestigious nations? Do you sell to your own SOI'ed nations? If thats the case I should be easily selling my goods as the population in my sphere has to be >8million.
This is just really weird and I'm wondering if anybody else has encountered it, or knows a way around it.
Around 1860 all my factories started losing money because they were not selling all of their goods. Checking the trade screen, most manufactured goods currently seem to have an actual sold that is ~70% of their WM supply. The problem is that only three countries(UK, NGF and France) are selling any manufactured goods because they have the most prestige and also produce approximately 70% of all manufactured goods. Now everyone except for these three have almost zero industry.
The top industry scores look something like this:
UK ~325
NGF ~300
France ~300
US ~25
Austria ~15
Canada(me) ~10
It's just really frustrating because every single factory I have is in the red and quickly closes. I'm currently trying to attain 3rd in prestige but its going slow. Is there any other way to sell your own goods before the more prestigious nations? Do you sell to your own SOI'ed nations? If thats the case I should be easily selling my goods as the population in my sphere has to be >8million.
This is just really weird and I'm wondering if anybody else has encountered it, or knows a way around it.
Prestige doesn't help you to sell your goods. Goods of all different origin sell equally in a market.
Your goods do sell in sphere common market first before reaching world market. (Unlike spherelings, GP does not have a local market.) However, your goods need to compete with goods from spherelings too. (Read: your goods and their goods sell equally in common market.) So SoI may help, but isn't a silver bullet for selling problem. Assuming your factories have no problem getting inputs, the only thing that keeps them from profit is that they are not effiecent enough. You can afford to subsidize some of your factories if you have a healthy RGO-based tax income, but ultimately input / output efficiencies (commercial techs and LF bonus) and to a lesser extent throughput efficiency (industrial techs) decide the fate of your industry.
Your goods do sell in sphere common market first before reaching world market. (Unlike spherelings, GP does not have a local market.) However, your goods need to compete with goods from spherelings too. (Read: your goods and their goods sell equally in common market.) So SoI may help, but isn't a silver bullet for selling problem. Assuming your factories have no problem getting inputs, the only thing that keeps them from profit is that they are not effiecent enough. You can afford to subsidize some of your factories if you have a healthy RGO-based tax income, but ultimately input / output efficiencies (commercial techs and LF bonus) and to a lesser extent throughput efficiency (industrial techs) decide the fate of your industry.
I see quite a few people hung up on transaction-cost modelling. It's true, that would be an excellent addition to economy. But I'd agree it would be an immensely painful task to implement.
If there was a next big addition to the economic model, I'd appreciate modelling returns-to-scale and the necessary features to back that up. Give certain factories an input/output bonus as they approach some idealized size. This would encourage centralization of these industries (both within a nation, and in the world economy). In turn, this requires a better AI, to navigate not only the marginal cost of this one expansion/contraction, but the expected future benefits and costs. It would also create exciting dynamics between nations (seize the Alsace region to reduce French iron supplies and weaken their steel industry?). And it would also be an excuse to create a strategic tariff system, rather than a purely revenue one (maybe right in the factory interface: prioritize/subsidize/tariff-ize).
If there was a next big addition to the economic model, I'd appreciate modelling returns-to-scale and the necessary features to back that up. Give certain factories an input/output bonus as they approach some idealized size. This would encourage centralization of these industries (both within a nation, and in the world economy). In turn, this requires a better AI, to navigate not only the marginal cost of this one expansion/contraction, but the expected future benefits and costs. It would also create exciting dynamics between nations (seize the Alsace region to reduce French iron supplies and weaken their steel industry?). And it would also be an excuse to create a strategic tariff system, rather than a purely revenue one (maybe right in the factory interface: prioritize/subsidize/tariff-ize).
I'd be far, far more interested in a hugely upgraded AI that could use all existing features, rather than adding in new features for it to not understand.