AHD Westernization

[heliostellar]

What are your thoughts on AHD Westernization? I just fired up as Japan to see how it worked with a relatively easy Westernization route. They are hurting for money, so I've had to cut the National Stockpile and Military Spending to near zero. Whatever though, I'm not in any danger any time soon...

I noticed that one reform seems to stand out Foreign Officer Training is 15% Westernization for what is pretty much a 10% Westernization cost. I also saved up for the Education reform since I feel like it will help more more over the long haul and hopefully give me educational techs once I'm fully Westernized. I'm torn between choosing the more expensive economic techs or the military ones. If I pass the economic ones, I can jack up my sliders on Education to make the process a little faster, just not sure about the cost/benefit trade off.

Thoughts?

[GPan]

Only played a few games so far, but Westernization felt it has gotten more passive than before

[flame7926]

I'm playing a game as Persia, and so far in 1854 I have passed one reform. I like that you can still puppet countries, I have had some pretty entertaining wars to puppet Afghanistan, Khiva, and Kalat.

[colinljx]

I believe all the positive modifier of these reforms will vanish once u westernize, meaning this new process is completely worthless and time consuming, since u will be spending time gathering more research point for reforms that may not even grant u a tech achievement (because they cost less research for westernization process). It may seem juicy, but it taste like paper plate... Another failed attempt to revitalize the eastern countries after what happened to DW I guess. The devs doesn't seem to understand that ppl play unciv countries for the same amount of fun they can get from civilized countries as well as the challenge of westernization and such, and they focused more on the challenge but not the fun part...

[TheChronoMaster]

The positive modifiers vanish, yeah, but the MUCH HIGHER boosts from tech come into play.

You wind up with higher research points after westernizing than you had before hand, by a fair margin.

[s1234567890m]

that and techs that you dont have are cheaper the longer you wait to research after there release date

[lollibast]

I'm playing Punjab and I spend all my income on education. At 1873 I'm at 40% westernize. I built a cement factory and although cement is in high demand on world market (400supply 600demand) most of my cement produced does not get sold. Cost for subsidizing exceeds my income at 100% tax and 0% spending on anything except stockpile(for subsidies)

[s1234567890m]

what are your tarrifs?

[lollibast]

0%
I spend all my money on subsidies. The problem is that the cement i snot sold on the world market. It jumps around from day to day sometimes selling some but mostly selling none.

Figured it out, although demand exceeds supply on the world market. Actual bought is sometimes lower than supply, so with my low prestige I end up not selling.

[s1234567890m]

bug report+save game probably best

[HeilLoki]

I generally like the new Westernization. I did a little test with Japan and I was westernized pretty soon. The old system with Prestige and Military points did annoy me.

The only thing I would like to see, is that you get clergy faster (unciv and civ aswell) and that westernization is a little bit faster than it is right now. Especially the economic teforms cost a little bit to much, I think.

[lollibast]

I'm in 1889, 60% westernize. No income, no bureaucrats, my artisans dont produce anything. Will see if westernization works with another country

[Derp]

It's pretty interesting. It's slower than in vanilla but once you get there you REALLY pick up in strength, and the reduced costs for old techs further helps with catching up . Managed to get Ethiopia to GP status by the mid-80s (although I lost it a few years later).

[ForzaA]

You might know this already, but - if you are in a sphere, you will generally get a reduction of RP costs for your reforms.

Westernising as both China and Japan felt fairly reasonable to me in terms of time it took, but I'm interested to hear what you think, and will of course keep an eye on this thread.

[Derp]

You might know this already, but - if you are in a sphere, you will generally get a reduction of RP costs for your reforms.

Westernising as both China and Japan felt fairly reasonable to me in terms of time it took, but I'm interested to hear what you think, and will of course keep an eye on this thread.

Sadly, as Ethiopia, nobody seemed to want me in their sphere at all - I even got my relations up to 200 with multiple Great Powers but they ignored me. Not even after civilizing.

[RedRalphWiggum]

Sadly, as Ethiopia, nobody seemed to want me in their sphere at all - I even got my relations up to 200 with multiple Great Powers but they ignored me. Not even after civilizing.

Often the case, depending on your situation. Ethiopia doesn't have a whole load going for it.

[Derp]

Often the case, depending on your situation. Ethiopia doesn't have a whole load going for it.

Yeah, I'm just kind of surprised that there was absolutely no interest at all. Even when they shared borders with me they just kind of went "meh" and carried on like I wasn't there.
edit: And I wasn't poor either, especially after westernizing. I spent the first few decades invading other uncivs so I had a decent mix of RGO goods available.

As a side note, in that game the UK fell to anarcho-liberal rebels, which shocked me.

[colinljx]

The positive modifiers vanish, yeah, but the MUCH HIGHER boosts from tech come into play.

You wind up with higher research points after westernizing than you had before hand, by a fair margin.

What the hell are u talking about? There is NO much higher boost later after westernization. A positive return on research investment doesn't exist in the current system(The research cost reduction for tech doesn't count since u will be so stagnate when westernized).
Unciv states have to have max tariff, max taxes on all classes, and no military spending at all so they can afford a max education output.

"and techs that dont have are cheaper the longer you wait to research..." Are u insane s123456789m? Would u let your GB/Prussia/Russia/anyone u usually play with rot in hell so you can spend less at the end of the game? Be realistic.

[Darkrenown]

You might want to keep calm there, Colin.

1) The effects of techs ARE much better than the effects of unciv Reforms. If you disagree, point out which are better.
2) No one said the big GPs should wait to research, the point was that that newly westernised nations will normally have cheaper techs due to them being past their historical date.

[RedRalphWiggum]

What the hell are u talking about? There is NO much higher boost later after westernization. A positive return on research investment doesn't exist in the current system(The research cost reduction for tech doesn't count since u will be so stagnate when westernized).
Unciv states have to have max tariff, max taxes on all classes, and no military spending at all so they can afford a max education output.

"and techs that dont have are cheaper the longer you wait to research..." Are u insane s123456789m? Would u let your GB/Prussia/Russia/anyone u usually play with rot in hell so you can spend less at the end of the game? Be realistic.

Settle down, let's keep it civil.