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Thread: Vassals are too faithful

  1. #1
    Uralian Chlodio's Avatar
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    Vassals are too faithful

    Hi... Few months ago I bought Europa Universalis III Chronicles and after that I have played many campaigns and mods. I have had many vassals close and far away, strong and weak, long-time and short-time, but still none of them didn't turn against me. Here is one example; one time in MPM I was Italy and I had Burgundy as vassal and no land connection. They had their own CoT and they were rich, they also had nice size armies still they didn't turn against me.... Why? Why is AI so stupid? I also tested some stuff and it seems like vassals only declare their independence only when they are stronger than mother country I'm right?

  2. #2
    I had a few times in which Vassals insulted me and 1 eventually breaking away.
    That country was, however, still weaker than me. In terms of Size, military and such. No idea why it broke away in the long run.

    But yeah, Mostly they are loyal like they should be!

  3. #3
    Uralian Chlodio's Avatar
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    Not necessarily Castile was originally vassal of León and duke of Castile turned against León and earned their independence.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Tigurus Fay View Post
    I had a few times in which Vassals insulted me and 1 eventually breaking away.
    That country was, however, still weaker than me. In terms of Size, military and such. No idea why it broke away in the long run.

    But yeah, Mostly they are loyal like they should be!
    '

    Sure it wasn't as personal union? no vassal has ever broken from me I think, maybe because of religious changes.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Chlodio View Post
    Not necessarily Castile was originally vassal of León and duke of Castile turned against León and earned their independence.
    I know :P But I doubt the AI will sent itself to its death.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronicler View Post
    '
    Sure it wasn't as personal union? no vassal has ever broken from me I think, maybe because of religious changes.
    The only PU I ever managed to get was inherited in one month.
    It was one of my first games though, so I might be wrong.I know it declared war at me when I got attacked by several other nations.

  6. #6
    Uralian Chlodio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronicler View Post
    '

    Sure it wasn't as personal union? no vassal has ever broken from me I think, maybe because of religious changes.
    Venice is Merchant Republic so...

  7. #7
    I had vassals break away and DOW me when I have REALLY high infamy and low war capacity.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Chlodio View Post
    Venice is Merchant Republic so...
    And Venice can also become a monarchy.

    EDIT: And who mentioned Venice? >_>.

  9. #9
    Your Friendly Dictator Grubnessul's Avatar
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    Vassals should be -imo- a lot more rebellious and break away when they see their chance clear.
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    Captain Arimahn's Avatar
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    They could use the PU treatment (Meaning a tendency to insult you if you're weaker than them) but that would make keeping several vassals a bit problematic after long wars.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grubnessul View Post
    Vassals should be -imo- a lot more rebellious and break away when they see their chance clear.
    I think the problem is that they would see their chance when you're engaged in a sufficiently large war, but if they're large and strong enough to think they can break away, you're probably calling them in to participate in those wars.

    The one time I had a vassal break away, I was playing as Morocco and had recently released a fairly sizable Guyenne as a vassal. I started a massive war with Emperor Austria and half the HRE and had left Guyenne out to let them burn WE and recover legitimacy, but when the fighting got brutal they thought they could make a break. They got steamrolled by vassals Castille, Aragon, and Portugal instead.

  12. #12
    The way the devs. of Magna Mundi handled rebellious vassels should be implemented, at least in part, to this game. Much more real/fun

  13. #13
    Field Marshal sprites's Avatar
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivashanko View Post
    The way the devs. of Magna Mundi handled rebellious vassels should be implemented, at least in part, to this game. Much more real/fun
    Too complicated and unbalanced system, NO

  15. #15
    I think their rebelliousness should also be determined by how you vassalized them. Force vassals should have a big malus to yearly relations plus a maximum amount it can be (say 0), which would also prevent them from being annexed later. Diplomatic vassals should be friendly and not really inclined to break away (after all, they agreed to it). Other factors can/should also be used, such as size/economy/power/religion/culture/etc. Other possibilities would include the option to install a puppet government which can maintain high relations but gets hit with stab problems for a long while (a big vassal continuously at -3 stab and/or lo legitimacy if monarchy will generally be too busy quashing rebels to be of much use to you unless you proactively intervene).
    EDIT: Mainly this is b/c I have never once had a vassal turn, no matter how big/small. I always drag my vassals into my wars since for me its fun to watch the vassal swarm siege while I do real fighting.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Curlyton View Post
    I think their rebelliousness should also be determined by how you vassalized them. Force vassals should have a big malus to yearly relations plus a maximum amount it can be (say 0), which would also prevent them from being annexed later. Diplomatic vassals should be friendly and not really inclined to break away (after all, they agreed to it). Other factors can/should also be used, such as size/economy/power/religion/culture/etc. Other possibilities would include the option to install a puppet government which can maintain high relations but gets hit with stab problems for a long while (a big vassal continuously at -3 stab and/or lo legitimacy if monarchy will generally be too busy quashing rebels to be of much use to you unless you proactively intervene).
    EDIT: Mainly this is b/c I have never once had a vassal turn, no matter how big/small. I always drag my vassals into my wars since for me its fun to watch the vassal swarm siege while I do real fighting.
    Vassals are good for lazy people.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arimahn View Post
    They could use the PU treatment (Meaning a tendency to insult you if you're weaker than them) but that would make keeping several vassals a bit problematic after long wars.
    Which is a good idea. In the boardgame there are random diplomatic upheavals which can even de-annex minors which have been conquered but not explicitly removed from the game.

    The reason vassals almost never break free from players who know what they are doing is that aligned vassals never break free, and vassals won't voluntarily break an alliance.

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