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Thread: A POP Divided: outlines of the future

  1. #1

    A POP Divided: outlines of the future

    Also known as Da Plan!

    OK, here's a rough run-down of what's going to be happening in PDM for AHD.

    Substates aren't going to be making an appearance. Do not bother asking me to include them for anything. They are solely intended as a China nerf in AHD, and since we already have a very effective set of China nerfs (low core count, Taiping), we do not need them.

    The existing PDM multi-stage civving process, despite being a lovely elegant little thing which I put together in about twenty minutes, is now an obsolete pile of junk compared to the stunning new thing in AHD, and so will be abandoned.

    The economic AI in AHD is designed to understand being dirt-poor, so money supply will be massively tightened, factory profitablity will be cut down hugely, and I'll basically re-write the economy calculations from the ground up to take full advantage of AHD's AI. Extra goods shall remain. Extra inventions shall remain. The PDM-style industrial progression shall remain.

    Other than that, I don't think much else needs to be changed - just adapted. Some uncivs will be needing to have their new reform levels set up, which I imagine Hibernian will love doing. Someone (not me, I'm writing an economy) will get the thankless task of copying over the 1861 setups, since those are stored in the individual province files. And I will merge in the changes from the various stuff in common etc.

    Hence, I think we can easily do this in a week. Any volunteers for mindless drudgery in the history files?
    For every subtle and complicated question, there is a simple and straightforward answer, which is wrong.

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  2. #2
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    As I mentioned elsewhere, I'd like some time to purchase and play AHD a bit before doing some modding. I'd like to see for myself what it does (that, and my deadlines will keep me pretty busy until the end of next week anyhow). After that point, I'll probably start on the rebel system, CB's and event/decision conversion. Which will be drudgery enough for me, thanks.

  3. #3
    Take as long as you need, Ry, you've done a great job holding things together without me.
    For every subtle and complicated question, there is a simple and straightforward answer, which is wrong.

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  4. #4
    General Hibernian's Avatar
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    Exellent stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Naselus View Post
    Other than that, I don't think much else needs to be changed - just adapted. Some uncivs will be needing to have their new reform levels set up, which I imagine Hibernian will love doing. Someone (not me, I'm writing an economy) will get the thankless task of copying over the 1861 setups, since those are stored in the individual province files. And I will merge in the changes from the various stuff in common etc.

    Hence, I think we can easily do this in a week. Any volunteers for mindless drudgery in the history files?
    I had already stated trying to go through the 4.5.2 history files, but I haven’t made as much progress as I'd hoped. I've done many files (mainly to do with Slavery), but there's so many things which I'm unsure of what you actually want in regards to some reforms that I haven't really touched them (I did ask for feedback but you didn't respond). And now that AHD is out that work may be obsolete, and it seems a bit pointless to continue modding the base version, especially if the reforms are going to be completely redone.

    Of course I haven't actually go AHD yet, so there's a lot I don't know, I know that they've added education reforms, but I assume the reforms screen will need to be changed in some ways. I really don't understand how Uncivs reforms work now though, do they even still have reforms, or is all of that handled through the westernising mechanics? i.e. does Slavery even still exist as an Unciv reform?

    Anyway, yeah I can certainly volunteer to do modding of history files, but first I'd actually have to play the game and see how it works and I assume you're going to be doing some large scale changes there, so I'd need clear instructions.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernian View Post
    Anyway, yeah I can certainly volunteer to do modding of history files, but first I'd actually have to play the game and see how it works and I assume you're going to be doing some large scale changes there, so I'd need clear instructions.
    Buy AHD, and I'll provide some clearer instructions. Otherwise, it'll be pretty hard for you to understand what I mean.

    The main thing that needs to be done, tbh, is the province files - there's internal bookmarks, so every province which changes hands between 1836 and 1861 needs to have new startup info added. We will also need a complete set of OOBs for 1861. The country files can more or less be left as the PDM ones initially, tho unciv reforms can be added to those as needed - if there aren't any listed, they simply don't start with any.
    For every subtle and complicated question, there is a simple and straightforward answer, which is wrong.

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  6. #6
    General Hibernian's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'm going to buy it soon (on Steam now). One other thing, did you say that the Interwar Sprite Packs are compatible with PDM now? They're on sale on Steam and might be quite nice to have, but would they interfere with me modding the game? Like would they give me a different checksum to everyone else?

  7. #7
    Anything I can do to help? I've got a three day weekend and playing AHD isn't doing it for me (too addicted to PDM).

  8. #8
    Colonel Nazaroth's Avatar
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    After looking at the substate system, or at least China for a bit.

    Why not use it on the UK and India? So in the beginning UK's literacy is still pretty high, but when they inevitably revolt, and UK goes in with the army they will seek to annex it.

    Just a suggestion I thought I put out there, since it would work better than the current China setup.
    Granted, if the code doesn't work, then oh well, PDM has spoiled me enough already and I can't wait for it to port over.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernian View Post
    Yeah, I'm going to buy it soon (on Steam now). One other thing, did you say that the Interwar Sprite Packs are compatible with PDM now? They're on sale on Steam and might be quite nice to have, but would they interfere with me modding the game? Like would they give me a different checksum to everyone else?
    I purchased them and my checksum didn't change. And as far as I know nothing that modifies just the GFX folder changes the checksum.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Nazaroth View Post

    Why not use it on the UK and India? So in the beginning UK's literacy is still pretty high, but when they inevitably revolt, and UK goes in with the army they will seek to annex it.
    That idea had occurred to me as well. Finland also seems like a good candidate for substatehood.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Naselus View Post
    Hence, I think we can easily do this in a week.
    Is that for just an initial version? How long do you reckon it will take to make a stable, bug-free and fully taking advantage of features version? Or is all that going to be done in a week :P If so I'm impressed

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Naselus View Post
    Substates aren't going to be making an appearance. Do not bother asking me to include them for anything.
    I'll just leave this here.
    For every subtle and complicated question, there is a simple and straightforward answer, which is wrong.

    Creator of PDM:PoD for Heart of Darkness: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...ownload-thread
    Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand Creator of '1792' for March of the Eagles: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...69074-1792-mod

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Uliono View Post
    Is that for just an initial version? How long do you reckon it will take to make a stable, bug-free and fully taking advantage of features version? Or is all that going to be done in a week :P If so I'm impressed
    I dunno, give me another 15 months or so, tht's how long it took for vanilla PDM.
    For every subtle and complicated question, there is a simple and straightforward answer, which is wrong.

    Creator of PDM:PoD for Heart of Darkness: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...ownload-thread
    Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand Creator of '1792' for March of the Eagles: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...69074-1792-mod

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernian View Post
    Yeah, I'm going to buy it soon (on Steam now). One other thing, did you say that the Interwar Sprite Packs are compatible with PDM now? They're on sale on Steam and might be quite nice to have, but would they interfere with me modding the game? Like would they give me a different checksum to everyone else?
    Yes, they work.
    For every subtle and complicated question, there is a simple and straightforward answer, which is wrong.

    Creator of PDM:PoD for Heart of Darkness: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...ownload-thread
    Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand Creator of '1792' for March of the Eagles: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...69074-1792-mod

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naselus View Post
    I'll just leave this here.
    No worries, the mod spoils me enough as is.
    Right now I'm just enjoying AHD and the amazing new civilization system (it really is), changes playing Japan A LOT!
    The Early Meiji Reformation, essentiially sent me into a civil war that lasted 2 years and saw my population plumment ~30-40k which was a nice touch.
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Nazaroth View Post
    No worries, the mod spoils me enough as is.
    Right now I'm just enjoying AHD and the amazing new civilization system (it really is), changes playing Japan A LOT!
    The Early Meiji Reformation, essentiially sent me into a civil war that lasted 2 years and saw my population plumment ~30-40k which was a nice touch.
    Yeah, I'm pretty confident that AHD will keep everyone happy while I complete the conversion. It's one of the best expansions Paradox have ever released, tbh; I think V2+AHD alone will pretty easily surpass V1+ricky.
    For every subtle and complicated question, there is a simple and straightforward answer, which is wrong.

    Creator of PDM:PoD for Heart of Darkness: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...ownload-thread
    Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand Creator of '1792' for March of the Eagles: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...69074-1792-mod

  17. #17
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    Volunteering to help with history files if you guys need extra people.

  18. #18
    Not to hijack the conversation, but I'd appreciate it if one of you guys taking a look at the history files could do me a favor. Pick a country, delete one of the lines in the history/countries folder that specifies a starting reform for that country, then try to play a game as that country. Then tell me exactly when it freezes.

    ie, you'd delete something like

    voting_system = first_past_the_post
    for say, Belgium. Then try to play a game as Belgium. The game won't work, but I need to know at what point it crashes, if at all.

    (I can't do this myself for reasons too tedious to get into now.)

    EDIT: Got it fixed, thanks to your help IOOA is now compatible with AHD, minus a few graphics bugs and missing localization. I've got room for three new reforms and am open to suggestions.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Naselus View Post
    Substates aren't going to be making an appearance. Do not bother asking me to include them for anything. They are solely intended as a China nerf in AHD, and since we already have a very effective set of China nerfs (low core count, Taiping), we do not need them.
    I understand not needing a bad China-nerf, considering the work you had already done to China in PDM. However I though the substate system had another (seemingly important) function, namely to make it harder to sphere China, and thereby capturing a huge resource base and market? This is not meant as a request to include substates, more a question about how the feature works in AHD.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nis Baggesen View Post
    I understand not needing a bad China-nerf, considering the work you had already done to China in PDM. However I though the substate system had another (seemingly important) function, namely to make it harder to sphere China, and thereby capturing a huge resource base and market? This is not meant as a request to include substates, more a question about how the feature works in AHD.
    My exact thought aswell. The current PDM China "nerfs", which are working good, do not keep China from being an economic i-win-button. On the contrary, the changes to the influence system will make it easier for a player or an AI to keep China in its sphere.

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