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Monzon

First Lieutenant
41 Badges
Jul 11, 2011
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Taken from the 1399 start, who are the most over-powered nations in your opinion, and who are the most under-powered?

For me:

Over-powered:
- Castille: 2nd best navy at game's start, as well as one of the best armies. An all-around power-house. A fairly isolated position in the European context, which is advantage enough without the massive land/naval buffing. Its kinda the same here for England, who has the best navy at game start as well as having the capacity to build up a formidable land force as well. But at least the English have the French to deal with.

- Burgundy: Take Bar, rule the world. Seems that way in any case. You link the two parts of the kingdom and you can basically bitch-slap whoever you want. Was Burgundy ever really that powerful?

Under-powered
- Aragon: Vassalise "super rich" Italy and you're still barely scraping by on the income. Was Aragon really that far behind Castille pre-union. In fact maybe my views on Castille (above) are a bit clouded because of how far ahead of Aragon they are at game's start.

- The Ottomans: Self-explanatory. Get cluster-f***ed almost every game I play. If its not the GH and Timmies, its Castille (and the rest of Europe) beating the living hell out of them. I don't think they fall into that lucky nations options that you can click on before the game starts. They very rarely survive in my games, but I suppose its the same for a lot of Muslim nations.

Disagree? Probably:). Its just a impulse thread off the top of my noggin, but I welcome criticism. Its the only way I'll learn.:blush:

Please suggest other nations as you see fit.
 
OP:
England, France, Castille, Burgundy, Holland, Hansa, Austria, Ottomans.

Underpowered:
No one?

Its an historical simulation...
 
Definitely Castille. Once they get a taste of blood up in Northern Africa, it soon becomes all Castille with doomstacks patrolling nonstop and the super navy offshore. Plus, it seems like I'm the only nation that ever has the cajones to go to war with them.
 
actually Burgundy was indeed a very powerful country back in the 15th century - they rose to power during the Hundred Years War as an ally to England. not to mention that they sat on the economical center of Europe. however they were defeated in 1477 by the combined forces of the French and the Swiss and the country was split up between France and Austria (as the Habsburg king married the daughter of the Duke of Burgundy who was killed in battle).

but in 1399 France was by no means stronger than Burgundy - in fact the situation was quite the opposite.
 
England/GB LOVES going to war with Castille/Spain, and it will win 9 times out of 10 in my experience, unless Castille is lucky and has some good, useful allies at that point (France, Denmark/Sweden/Scandanavia).
So.....
Overpowered: ENG and CAS, with BUR and AUS as possibilities solely due to HRE and/or Horde mechanics
Underpowered: Ming, due solely to a not-very-good faction system (at any time 2/3 of my functionality is crippled and I'll be spending the first 100-150 years sitting around BEGGING for CtAs so I can do SOMETHING? NOT fun). Maybe the Daimyos (definitely in AI hands but not really in human)
 
OP:
England, France, Castille, Burgundy, Holland, Hansa, Austria, Ottomans.

Underpowered:
No one?

Its an historical simulation...

How are the Ottomans OP? They always collapse when I play.

They're definitely UP, because of the hordes and the fact that Muslim countries in general are UP (they're far too easy for Europeans to beat up). Castille is a bit OP, maybe. Muscowy (and the other Russian states) is UP, especially compared to history (though that's partially a horde problem). And Poland is UP, though that may just be because they have a far worse chance to keep Lithuania compared to the situation historically.
 
I would say England is the most powerful nation hands down. It pretty much have the same manpower as France and Castille, but more freedom, The best navy of all. (And let's face it, missions beats all)
So why say Castille and France when England is the obvious choice >_>.
 
Overpowered:
- Burgundy: The scariest country in Europe if it manages to defeat France (which usually accompanies with being the Emperor). Even scarier if you are a Dutch minor.
- France: Quite impossible to defeat in land wars (until mid 1600's) if it eats up Burgundy. Not as scary as a blobby Burgundy.

Underpowered:
- England/GBR: Usually splits into little pieces or gets raped by Scotland + allies. Never uses navy effectively
- Ottomans: Synonymous to free food.
- Ming: Often collapses, never really blobs, never ever Westernizes. Also free food.
- Indian countries: Blobs like Blobhemia but armies evaporate like alcohol in presence of Latin military. Free food as well.
- Scandinavia: Forms a lot but almost always collapses later on. They might be more competitive if cores of the original country is removed and the A.I. actually uses "Promote Cultural Unity" decision.
- Prussia/Teutonia Order: Always gets bullied
- Poland, Lithuania, Russian countries: Almost always gets eaten up (unless they snake).

Balanced:
- Castille: A nightmare for non-Christians and minors but always gets bullied by a blobby Burgundy/France/Blobhemia. When it is in a war with one of those three, it usually doesn't take long to see large coloured strips on its yellow provinces.

By the way, does the A.I. EVER Westernize?
 
Overpowered:
- Burgundy: The scariest country in Europe if it manages to defeat France (which usually accompanies with being the Emperor). Even scarier if you are a Dutch minor.
- France: Quite impossible to defeat in land wars (until mid 1600's) if it eats up Burgundy. Not as scary as a blobby Burgundy.

Underpowered:
- England/GBR: Usually splits into little pieces or gets raped by Scotland + allies. Never uses navy effectively
- Ottomans: Synonymous to free food.
- Ming: Often collapses, never really blobs, never ever Westernizes. Also free food.
- Indian countries: Blobs like Blobhemia but armies evaporate like alcohol in presence of Latin military. Free food as well.
- Scandinavia: Forms a lot but almost always collapses later on. They might be more competitive if cores of the original country is removed and the A.I. actually uses "Promote Cultural Unity" decision.
- Prussia/Teutonia Order: Always gets bullied
- Poland, Lithuania, Russian countries: Almost always gets eaten up (unless they snake).

Balanced:
- Castille: A nightmare for non-Christians and minors but always gets bullied by a blobby Burgundy/France/Blobhemia. When it is in a war with one of those three, it usually doesn't take long to see large coloured strips on its yellow provinces.

By the way, does the A.I. EVER Westernize?

Though did the creator ever say it was about AIs? I thought he meant overpowered for human players. And can't see how you can call England underpowered. (Maybe as an AI because AI sawks.)
 
Overpowered:

...

By the way, does the A.I. EVER Westernize?

If AI gets the opportunity they'll take the decision so it can occur sometimes. Unfortunately afaik they don't actively try to get the innovativeness for it which means only those AI countries which are already close to the required level of innovativeness will ever even have a chance of westernize and after that they also have to survive being right next to somebody with higher tech.
I think somebody once posted an image of a Granada on the Strange Screenshots forum that not only survived but also managed to westernize. Oman would be another country with innovativeness slider in a decent position.
 
Though did the creator ever say it was about AIs? I thought he meant overpowered for human players. And can't see how you can call England underpowered. (Maybe as an AI because AI sawks.)
Sorry, I must've misread.

In this case, I'd disagree with what the OP has said.

I've never played as Ottoman (since it looked so easy) but I've played as Byzantium so the experience is not that far off. Despite the constant DoW's from everyone, the only major threats are Austria, Bohemia, the Hordes, and Castille. With strong troop types early on and vast expanses of land, it's actually not that hard to defend your territories. As an added bonus, you start off with Serbia and Bosnia as meat shields. The Holy War CB on European provinces also makes expansion cheap.

The trick to expand as Aragon is to do the right things at start (i.e. Day 1 DoW). Namely (1) vassalize Navarre, reconquer Sardinia, and force Sicily into a PU. Later on, you just need to time the right moment to attack France and/or Castille. The former is usually busy with England and/or Burgundy and the latter is usually pre-occupied with the Muslims. It takes some strategy but definitely not underpowered if player-controlled that is.
 
I'm talking AI here. No nation is underpowered in the hands of a competent player.

Overpowered:

- France/Burgundy: Either Burgundy eats France or France eats Burgundy. Either way, there's now a hungry giant on its way to devour Italy and Germany. Austria's attempts to stop it are met with the liberation of Styria, Tyrol and the like, after which no computer-controlled state has the power to stop them. Castille tries sometimes, but France knows how to set them straight.

Underpowered:

- The Ottomans: They're always picked apart by a combination of France, England Castille, Venice and Byzantium.
- England: Scotland often conquers 3/4 of England and then loses interest, meaning neither one of them forms Great Britain and actually accomplishes something.
- Hungary: Always killed by Austria, Bohemia and Poland, after which Austria itself is killed by France/Burgundy.
 
OP :
Golden Horde - should start in TSC and totkhamysh should be the pretender, also some of its provinces should be occupied by lithuania.
Timurids - Well... maybe not too OP, but still OP. They or GH tend to conquer georgia. Or both. Ofc also quara koyunlu tends to kill them if neither GH or timmies do it... i think realy, Georgia should get events of free soliders, when at war with hordes... they just don't manage to survive, and this is totaly unhistorical...
Castille... - They were actualy the ones that were in PU with aragon, not the other way around. And it is hell to manage a union over castille...
UP :
Aragon... - yeah they just tend to be defeated by france/castille/italian minors.
OE - it is not like they are weak. But they are in weak position - fighting 2 or 3 hordes is hell to play...
EDIT : Hungary i think.
Unhistorical:
Golden horde
Georgia
Castille
Lithuania (should be ruled by Witold(Vytuatas) - and be a vassal of poland)
Aragon
 
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I'm talking AI here. No nation is underpowered in the hands of a competent player.

Overpowered:

- France/Burgundy: Either Burgundy eats France or France eats Burgundy. Either way, there's now a hungry giant on its way to devour Italy and Germany. Austria's attempts to stop it are met with the liberation of Styria, Tyrol and the like, after which no computer-controlled state has the power to stop them. Castille tries sometimes, but France knows how to set them straight.

Underpowered:

- The Ottomans: They're always picked apart by a combination of France, England Castille, Venice and Byzantium.
- England: Scotland often conquers 3/4 of England and then loses interest, meaning neither one of them forms Great Britain and actually accomplishes something.
- Hungary: Always killed by Austria, Bohemia and Poland, after which Austria itself is killed by France/Burgundy.

Somewhat true, but different are still...different, and not equals in power. So there are those with less power and those with more. And England def. has most!
 
OP: Lithuania. In my game they ALWAYS blob out and it's not unusual from them to stretch from the Baltic to the Pacific (twice they've also made it to India)
Castile. Always a PITA to deal with.
Burgundy. Much more common in my games than the BBB.

UP: Ottomans. In the hands of even a new player they're quite capable but the AI just hates them for some reason.
Muscovy/Novgorad. Once again, they're capable, but it just seems like the AI wants to keep them from forming Russia, or doing anything important.
England. Compartively they should form GB with ease, but for some reason they always pick a fight with the HRE and get crushed.
 
BTW, when I say human-controlled I'm just talking in general, like when you click onto a nation and think "Oh, not many troops here, better build more", but then you quickly realise "Shit, I'm at my limit already. Why does this country have such a crap landforce level limit!". Same for economy, income etc. I suppose sliders will come into it a bit. :)

A lot of us can turn a turd into a tiara in this game, but which nations where you surprised with in regard to relative difficulty.
 
BTW, when I say human-controlled I'm just talking in general, like when you click onto a nation and think "Oh, not many troops here, better build more", but then you quickly realise "Shit, I'm at my limit already. Why does this country have such a crap landforce level limit!". Same for economy, income etc. I suppose sliders will come into it a bit. :)

A lot of us can turn a turd into a tiara in this game, but which nations where you surprised with in regard to relative difficulty.

But in the end, who wants to wear a smelly tiara?