Lessons from M&B

[reapy]

Yes sir thats me. If only everybody was as bad at the game as they were at release, was good times hehe. I doubt even in this game we will see too many inexperienced players as this style of game wont be as new as it was with warband. I hope ill like this one enough to want to do another guide, though have to get reasonably average at it before i can give any hints. Hopefully there will be some more attention for this game too, so someone will probably get all that is needed out there anyhow...still would love to get hooked again

[Baja]

Chambers should be a little easier side to side if contrasted with Warband. Most new players don't even know it can be done.

Also, I thought the first post in this thread was mostly rubbish.

Walking backwards should be slower than forward.
Walking into someone when they are using a ranged weapon should yield some kind of advantage.
Turning the direction you want should be as fast as a person can do it, I think it's almost the same as reaction speed.
If you are holding a shield up, you don't need a mini-game to block.

Much respect to Reapy, the poster above me. The guide video for warband was phenomenal. Could have used a little more guidance on chambers, but top notch still.

[ProjectAngel]

Could have used a little more guidance on chambers, but top notch still.

Reapy's chamber blocking video #1.

Reapy's chamber blocking video #2.

[Sighvatr]

Chambering is so very helpful when your stuck dueling somebody with only two attack directions. Mount&Musket is a great place to practice that with bayonets.

[ProjectAngel]

Meh, chambering in MM is so easy because you can just overhead attack 90% of attacks that come your way, (and overhead attack chamber is by far the easiest to pull off in my opinion.)

I think Native is the best to get a good feel for chambering as you have all 4 attack directions to learn the timings of.

[Digu21]

Combat is though slightly different, I meant like. Instead of pulling mouse the direction of the attack/block then click and attack/block..

Its click+hold mouse then move the direction of the attack/block. So it will not be exactly the same but almost !

M&B Warband, Direction+Click/Hold

WotR, Click/Hold+Direction

Thats what I've seen and heard. Though I can say that in theori, I like the WotR system better. You can easily getting wrong direction with M&B Warband, not that it happens often but sometimes.

[reapy]

Baja, I'm not sure if you played the warband beta, but at points they had different weekly builds with many of these things tweaked to different values and were common issues people argued over on the forums.

Walking backwards should be slower than forward. -- This is still true in warband, but the difference is very slight, not really pronounced. It sounds good in theory, but I believe the coin phrase used during warband beta was 'ww1 spin fighting'. If you can't retreat from the opponent then you can't dodge attacks backwards and the only thing you can really do to dodge is try to circle around one another. I think Chivalry is doing the unreal tournament double tap a key to dodge mechanic, so maybe that is one solution while keeping the slow retreating in.

Walking into someone when they are using a ranged weapon should yield some kind of advantage. - Agreed, you didn't read the post all the way which is fine. I explained why when this wasn't the case it didn't work, then what was done to fix it.

Turning the direction you want should be as fast as a person can do it, I think it's almost the same as reaction speed. - Turn rate while the swing is held down went back and forth many times. If you want to tie your swinging turn rate to the mouse speed, enjoy the whirlwind tornado game you are going to create. Swing directions wont matter, just top spin and pick a direction when it is your turn to attack... Hard to do at first, but believe me people will master it if you don't do anything to discourage them. People were already pissed at 360 spins in warband that had a turn rate.

If you are holding a shield up, you don't need a mini-game to block. - Agreed partially. Your shield should work just fine if you hold down the right mouse button or pick the wrong direction. Though at the end of the day many players get very bored with shield vs shield combat, so it is worth considering adding some more mechanics to keep it interesting.

Anyway I'm not dictating what should or shouldn't be, I was simply writing the things down I remembered during the beta phase of warband. I got pretty involved in terms of reading all the posts and trying out all the builds as they came, so figured that lessons learned shouldn't be lost, even if they don't directly apply to this game.

[Baja]

Reapy's chamber blocking video #1.

Reapy's chamber blocking video #2.

I saw that several times. I can not express how many times I watched Reapy's videos trying to learn chamber blocking. All I literally needed was to know that you look at the enemies hands, and time your pull back for the start of their swing.

Baja, I'm not sure if you played the warband beta, but at points they had different weekly builds with many of these things tweaked to different values and were common issues people argued over on the forums.

I didn't play beta. I am not saying your points aren't good. It just takes you so many words to get to them for my taste. I like you. I just need more conciseness. Looking back on my post, I said rubbish, but I don't think that word is adequate. It just has to negative of a connotations. Sorry for any misunderstanding.

Took me two years to learn chambers and now I am working on the Pass the chamber drill. Here is my video from a practice a couple weeks ago.
Baja's chamber video (youtube recommended that music, I am not a fan)

As you can see, I don't know how to chamber a chamber yet. Any advice would be great.

Some kind of chamber timing indicator would be super nice for training it. Might be too superfluous.

Still, some players are just oblivious to chambers existing. Others view them as to risky to try in combat. In all the really good sword fights in movies chambering is everywhere. I like to get my escrima on sometimes though. While the blocks aren't hard blocks since I like filipino style, they definitely use the six angles of blocking similar to warbands four. Kuntaw Angles by Buzz

If only the middle ages in Europe had used filipino fighting styles. better than hard blocking

[ProjectAngel]

When your opponent begins the second stage of their swing you initiate your first stage. (So when he pulls his weapon back, the moment the weapon starts to come back forward towards you, you pull your weapon back for an attack in the direction an attack is coming in from.)

[Sighvatr]

I know how to do up and down chambers, but side chambering has always been a problem for me.

[ProjectAngel]

It's exactly the same regardless of the direction. Only difference is that you can chamber both up and down attacks with up attack.

[Sighvatr]

It's exactly the same regardless of the direction. Only difference is that you can chamber both up and down attacks with up attack.

True, but side chambering is more difficult, because the attack presents itself more quickly than up or down attacks.

[ProjectAngel]

Depends.

If I am fighting with a shield I find the sideways chambers easier, where as if I fight with a 2 hander I find the up / down chambers easier.

[reapy]

To chamber I think what happens is when you click the attack button the collision mesh on your weapon gets enabled for the duration of your weapon going from neutral to the held back position, then it turns off. To chamber block you have to intersect that collision mesh with the opponents incoming swing. If they meet, you chamber.

Timing works out as they said just after their swing, but in reality you are matching animations. You have to select the correct direction of the chamber, and it must intercept their incoming swing. The one 'chamber block practice' if you skip towards the end there is some slow motion where there is a chamber block on a spear where it hits at the end of its swing from behind. The timing is different from when they release because it has to match when the spear arrives at my weapon doing the chambering.

Fastest swing speed, as most servers are set in the US, doesn't allow for the same amount of rechambering you can do in medium, another reason I dislike it.

[Theuerdank]

Salut!
My first post, but i still like to play especially M&B warband and there normally cRPG/strategus mod. What i miss most in original Warband was a real 'war' (means consequently 'campaign(s)' for multiplayer. A battle or skirmish or fight is not a war. Strategus is an attempt, but its clear nothing professional. Thats why i play more common cRPG than strategus.
But if here will be no MP campaign, no 'War of the Woses' only 'Matches of two Roses teams' then there is no real difference to M&B multiplayer.

Anyway i will try this game, because i like the period so much and style seems to be more 'historical' than for other games. And for my taste its an advantage that WotRes wants to match a 'period' and not mix all 'funny stuff' only for some superficial taste. But i had seen a bascinet more 'about 1400' style, that would be not really fine. I would also not want to see a tricorne in a 1870/71 'war' also i would 'love' those hats . And that second half of 15ct period can be easily additioned with par example burgundian wars with some swiss pikemen and halberdiers against a 'splendid' burgundian army; also first italian wars 'imperial habsburg vs. france'.

If combat makes fun like in Warband then i will have also fun, then i will close one eye (not both, because i want to see something on the sscreen) .
Hopefully...... please make a real 'war' and not only matches in a larger footballarene. That would be great!
I will follow the development, its surely ambitioned.

[4AD]

MP destroyed the fun of m&b forever , the "balance" crap made archery stupid , mounted combat uninteresting and melee boring . You know this is the correct order of things , an archer can one shoot you dead from a distance because he is an archer and this is what he does and a noob knight in a charger can take 20 veteran players out single handed because this is what knights do , if you see an archer or a knight RUN ; this was the spirit of the original game that was destroyed in warband .
Warband is shit and shit it will remain for the shake of "balance" , new game will continiue the saga with even more balancing so the MPers feel the game is "fair" .

[Siegbert85]

MP destroyed the fun of m&b forever , the "balance" crap made archery stupid , mounted combat uninteresting and melee boring . You know this is the correct order of things , an archer can one shoot you dead from a distance because he is an archer and this is what he does and a noob knight in a charger can take 20 veteran players out single handed because this is what knights do , if you see an archer or a knight RUN ; this was the spirit of the original game that was destroyed in warband .
Warband is shit and shit it will remain for the shake of "balance" , new game will continiue the saga with even more balancing so the MPers feel the game is "fair" .

Lol, I can't even begin to explain how untrue this is
good night

[Theuerdank]

MP destroyed M&B warband fun? Thats something i cannot evaluate, because i only played MP. Single Player games i dont play any more (since years), so its really difficult for me that SP could be more fun. For me only MP gaming is fun, but thats taste.
So War of the Roses must be developed clearly in a fine way, sure , but the soloplayer part doesn't interest me in any way. Again, thats taste and preference.

[ProjectAngel]

MP destroyed M&B warband fun? Thats something i cannot evaluate, because i only played MP. Single Player games i dont play any more (since years), so its really difficult for me that SP could be more fun. For me only MP gaming is fun, but thats taste.
So War of the Roses must be developed clearly in a fine way, sure , but the soloplayer part doesn't interest me in any way. Again, thats taste and preference.

+1

The AI in M&B is a joke and I honestly can't stand fighting against it. The real enjoyment for me comes purely from the PvP that Warband offers.

There is a few singleplayer games that I enjoy, but you can't beat the sense of achievement that you get from beating human opponents in my opinion.

[Beowulf1990]

I love singleplayer games...but I have to admi that I haven't played MB SP for quite a bit now, but I still play MP regularly.

4AD is being a bit silly though. Yes the combat is no longer identical to the original, it isn't boring by a long shot! This game is one of the most skill-based I've ever played. (excluding things like cRPG, where grinding becomes more important)