PDM 4.5.2 download/feedback thread (for non-AHD, v1.4 only)

[Dichromate]

Personally I like the changes to Germany - finally we have upper and lower Silesia, and there have always been varying sizes of regions - having Ebling as part of East Prussia works fine and does allow for post WW1 borders to happen..

I tried playing a game as Hail-Arabia though, and there's still a problem with food supply. Do you think maybe making it more profitable for artisans would help? It's probably mainly just a problem for non-sphered uncivs though..

[Rylock]

I tried playing a game as Hail-Arabia though, and there's still a problem with food supply. Do you think maybe making it more profitable for artisans would help? It's probably mainly just a problem for non-sphered uncivs though..

I'm playing a 4.5.2 game with Nejd right now, and have experienced no trouble with the food supply. Nejd isn't sphered by anyone, either.

[Duke of Awesome]

I'm playing a 4.5.2 game with Nejd right now, and have experienced no trouble with the food supply. Nejd isn't sphered by anyone, either.

In my Nejd game I don't think I had any food problems. If I did, it didn't lead to mass-starvation at any rate. I was mostly population positive.

[Rylock]

Actually, scratch that: there is some food shortage. It's not very much, though, and it's erratic-- and only for the smallest uncivs. By 1880 in my current game, the Trucial States are down to 2k pops or less in each province. Same with Bahrain (I think Qatar has less than 1k). A few other small countries have the same thing, though it's not as noticeable in other areas that started off with large populations. I'd need to compare. Noticed a bit higher unrest as other places are getting a larger amount of "partial Life Needs fulfilled" in their poor pops.

[Rylock]

Provided Naselus doesn't object, I'm going to include a hotfix for 4.5.2-- rather than put out a new version. Eventually I suspect we should amend this all to a 4.FINAL once the 1.4 patch officially comes out, but until then 4.5.2 seems to be working pretty well.

Changed in the hotfix:

* Lowered the canned food requirements for all other poptypes to match farmers and labourers.

* Changed the Scramble for Africa CB to not solely apply to neighboring civilized countries (so European GP's not already in Africa will be encouraged to move in).

* Changed the Free Balkans CB to not apply to vassals of the OE.

* Novi Pazar province is now given to Bosnia along with Bosnia state during the Berlin Congress.

* Requirements for Belgium's "Colonial Destiny" decision slightly reduced.

* Relations with Egypt not reduced when Ethiopia forms.

The hotfix will work just fine with savegames.

[Naselus]

Eventually I suspect we should amend this all to a 4.FINAL once the 1.4 patch officially comes out, but until then 4.5.2 seems to be working pretty well.

That's pretty much my intention; hopefully, 1.4 final will include some of the AI improvements from AHD, and so I can use an AHD-level economy in 1.4 final.

[JohnGlave]

I get the checksum BBOQ with the hot fix.

I know no new features will be added to PDM for vanilla. But would it be possible to change the civilisation process? At the moment it's either incredibly difficult or near impossible to civilise, because of military score, with most countries before 1880 or even 1900. Although I realise this may be realistic, it's horrible for game play, because there is so little to do until westernisation.

I'd propose having the military score requirement, work either in a decade form like this:

(1836 - 1840) 80 > (1840 - 1850) 70 > (1850 - 1860) 60 > (1860 - 1870) 50 > (1880 - 1890) 40 > (1890 - 1900) 30 > (1900+) 20

Or:

(1836 - 1860) 60 > (1860 - 1870) 50 > (1870 - 1880) 40 > (1880 - 1900) 30 > (1900+) 20

The best system I think would one which made the military requirement less the higher prestige is, but that's probably too much change for the final version.

[Naselus]

It already reduces over time, so I'd guess we won't bother changing this; particularly since AHD makes the PDM civilizing mechanics obsolete.

[JohnGlave]

It already reduces over time, so I'd guess we won't bother changing this; particularly since AHD makes the PDM civilizing mechanics obsolete.

Okay, I was only thinking about PDM for vanilla, because I don't think everybody will be getting AHD.

[Rylock]

Okay, I was only thinking about PDM for vanilla, because I don't think everybody will be getting AHD.

We're not going to keep making changes to the non-AHD version, however. Fix things, yes (at least in the short term). Make larger changes which would need testing, and could affect balance? No. The time for this kind of suggestion was in the last month or two while I was gearing up to make the "final" non-AHD build. Sorry!

And thanks for the Hotfix checksum. I forgot to check that. I'll add it to the OP.

[Caewil]

Played a game as Oranje. Testing out what effect switching them to liberty and giving them every political reform would have. Surprisingly, I still had a net outflow of migrants. There were a few months where thousands of them arrived, followed by years of a few hundred leaving at a time. Growth actually picked up when I switched to a communist government and passed 'nobody gets out' as my immigration law.

Other than that, maybe if they form south africa by event, the boers should gain british as an an accepted culture? That or remove the british cores so they slowly assimilate.

[Rylock]

Played a game as Oranje. Testing out what effect switching them to liberty and giving them every political reform would have. Surprisingly, I still had a net outflow of migrants. There were a few months where thousands of them arrived, followed by years of a few hundred leaving at a time. Growth actually picked up when I switched to a communist government and passed 'nobody gets out' as my immigration law.

Other than that, maybe if they form south africa by event, the boers should gain british as an an accepted culture? That or remove the british cores so they slowly assimilate.

At some point, Oranje and Transvaal will need to be addressed. The Boer War events I put in don't do much at present, simply because both countries are weak as kittens-- unless a player is running them, they end up with maybe a single unit or two and then get slowly annexed by the UK once the war begins. So something will need to be done to make them better represented, but that's for sometime after AHD gets converted.

[Naselus]

Yeah, Africa gets no migrant bonuses like the Americas and Australia. Maybe it should, and I'll just prevent uncivs getting migration. Hard to say, tho, since the Mahgrib and the Sahara are not really a good spot for migrants.

I imagine Oranje and Transvaal will be hugely more powerful once I've rewritten the economy, since I can now crush profits without the AI spazzing out.

[Caewil]

True, in real life they were a big problem for the british to deal with. Thing is, most of their successes were in guerilla warfare, which the game doesn't model very well.

[Naselus]

Well, it wasn't so much the Boers themselves, tbh, as the British being hilariously bad at land warfare. Attrition was the big killer rather than the Boers themselves.

[Caewil]

The AI is hilariously bad at land warfare in the colonies, so I suppose it works. After I smashed the 50k stack the british had put in south africa, they didn't send anything else. Maybe a speed modifier so the Boers can move around faster? Don't know whether the AI knows how to use that.

True, maybe they should get the same immigration bonuses as america. As you say, it only affects civilised states and unless under player guidance, none of the africans stand much chance of doing that before the scramble begins. As for the Maghreb not being good for colonists... Look at how many french moved there. (that's colonial migration though)

[Rylock]

True, maybe they should get the same immigration bonuses as america.

They do get both a hefty immigration bonus as well as an assimilation bonus as a result of the Trek Boer decision, but it only lasts for a few years. Could be it needs to last longer (perhaps a reduced version of the initial one) or even be permanent. Either way, that's for later.

[Duke of Awesome]

In my Sardinia-Piedmont game Austria's rebels confused me. I attacked Austria when Hungary revolted but Russia was also trying to reclaim parts of Poland that Austria took from them earlier so they were getting double teamed. Soon after I invaded Venetian rebels popped up. I planned to avoid them and let Venetia revolt into a new country that i could quickly sphere or conquer. However, after dealing with rebel stacks far larger than any army Austria could come up with, they simply vanished. Austria didn't collapse, but all the Venetian rebels disappeared, even though they occupied most of Venetia and Lombardia. I went on with teh invasion and the same thing happened, Venetian rebels popped up, occupied all of Northern Italy, and then vanished. Also, the British somehow got Ferrara (or whatever the Papal States province is called) and its been occupied by Jacobins for at least 5 years or so. Will it do anything?

[Gwyn ap Nud]

In my Sardinia-Piedmont game Austria's rebels confused me. I attacked Austria when Hungary revolted but Russia was also trying to reclaim parts of Poland that Austria took from them earlier so they were getting double teamed. Soon after I invaded Venetian rebels popped up. I planned to avoid them and let Venetia revolt into a new country that i could quickly sphere or conquer. However, after dealing with rebel stacks far larger than any army Austria could come up with, they simply vanished. Austria didn't collapse, but all the Venetian rebels disappeared, even though they occupied most of Venetia and Lombardia. I went on with teh invasion and the same thing happened, Venetian rebels popped up, occupied all of Northern Italy, and then vanished. Also, the British somehow got Ferrara (or whatever the Papal States province is called) and its been occupied by Jacobins for at least 5 years or so. Will it do anything?

What is probably happening, is that the POPs fuelling the rebels are losing the Militancy required to keep the rebel units in the field, in regard to the Venetian rebels at least.

[Duke of Awesome]

What is probably happening, is that the POPs fuelling the rebels are losing the Militancy required to keep the rebel units in the field, in regard to the Venetian rebels at least.

I should probably mention that the provinces that were occupied also ceased to be occupied.