Battle mechanics questions

[SAS]

Can you elaborate more on the games battle mechanics please. I am curious with the new engine how battles are done. A mix of ageod and clauzwitz?

[ashandresash]

Can you elaborate more on the games battle mechanics please. I am curious with the new engine how battles are done. A mix of ageod and clauzwitz?

I think we are close to a new Clausewitz combat system indeed... It's been said that NCP2 could take CKII's combat like a basis (althought it'd be just the beginning, I assume).

For instance, Crusader Kings II is using the Left Flank / Centre / Right Flank issue we've already seen in alpha NCP2 pictures (but as far as I've seen, reserves are not present in CKII but in NCP2).

Some of the dynamics:

(...)
Combat, however, is different from our other games. As soon as they are grouped together in a larger army, units are are assigned to one of three positions; left flank, center, or right flank. This is done automatically, but can be altered manually by players so inclined. On the battlefield, each position fights separately - normally against the corresponding part of the enemy army. Combat between positions is divided into three phases; skirmish, melee and pursue/flee. My left flank can be skirmishing against the enemy's right flank while my center is locked in melee, etc. The seven unit types have different strengths and weaknesses, so that for example archers excel at skirmish and knights at melee. The leader of each flank (a character), will pick combat tactics, which determines if his position should strive to close for melee, or avoid melee, etc. When an enemy position breaks, it will flee, and the pursue phase ensues. The longer the phase lasts, the more losses that contingent will sustain, but on the other hand, the pursuing force will not be assisting against the remaining enemy positions - also a tactical decision by the flank commander. Combat tactics are similar to the combat events of Rome, but more developed. (Btw, combat tactics are fully moddable.)

Apart from combat tactics, there are also more traditional combat events, for example when commanders get wounded, killed or imprisoned, or when they improve on their martial skills. Sieges work in a similar fashion, but emphasizing morale loss, and with a different set of combat tactics. A commander with a high Intrigue skill might even manage to bribe some defenders into opening the gates. What about fleets? Unlike CK, ships do exist in Crusader Kings II, similar to the galleys in Rome. They are raised like normal troop levies in coastal provinces, but can only be used to transport troops - not to fight or block straits (large scale naval battles in the period were rare to say the least.)

Oh, I almost forgot to mention that if an army is victorious, all commanders will bask in the glory and gain prestige. Conversely, the shame of defeat results in prestige loss. So, choosing to lead the army yourself can be profitable in terms of prestige, but of course, war is a dangerous business...
(...)

I've taken this from 10th Dev Diary from CKII, published in July'11

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...iary-10-Combat

So, at least we're having three different but somehow related fronts, combat phases, combat tactics (somewhat similar to RoE in ageod's, and dependant on every leader), leaders themselves affecting the performancem (several ones involved in a single battle), and combat events... and aditionally, reserves. It's not EUIII or Vicky2 simplified combat system but something closer to ageod's. And moddable

In addition, being real-time, maybe we could even give orders since combat is taking place, and find a nice substitute for 'marching on the sound of guns' feature in having you the capacity of doing so (instead of engaging with a tiny bait force since the bulk of your enemy is flanking you).

Day by day I'm getting into this

[SAS]

Excellent post, thanks for the info. I agree this game is very exciting.

[Van Diemen]

I really like this game already from the few things I have been able to read and watch. I had wonder though about a feature which I really like from previous Ageod games and which is absent in PI designed games. Will attack stance and aggressiveness come into play in this game? Can you set probing attacks for instance and how will things like retreat be managed?

[Publius Scipio]

I really like this game already from the few things I have been able to read and watch. I had wonder though about a feature which I really like from previous Ageod games and which is absent in PI designed games. Will attack stance and aggressiveness come into play in this game? Can you set probing attacks for instance and how will things like retreat be managed?

I hope these new mechanics will have a major bearing on the outcome of battles rather than just a minor cosmetic effect - Will be interesting to see what happens when 1 flank collapses in a battle with similar size armies.

I wonder how much knowledge you will get of the formation of an enemy army before you engage.

Also looking forward to seeing the impact terrain will have on these battles in relation to the flanking and reserves. In the current systems for EU games the defending side gets the benefit of 1 river even if attacked from both sides.

Most of all I hope the AI will be able to vary formation to good effect (reflecting the brilliance or incompetence of the commander of course)

[SAS]

Looking at the screen shots I love that the player can set up there left, middle, right, and reserve wings for a corps. Now is the corps the largest unit for the map or does it belong to an army sized element? I guess what I am asking is this; on map do the provinces contain several different corps or one army?

[takedown47]

i wonder what the reserve force does? do they actually fight?

[SAS]

i wonder what the reserve force does? do they actually fight?

I am interested in this too since from the screens it is just the baggage train.

[takedown47]

it'd be funny to see the supply wagons fight, what would they do, throw shovels at the enemy?

[SAS]

it'd be funny to see the supply wagons fight, what would they do, throw shovels at the enemy?

Stampede them and hope some get trampled.

[calamarr]

I guess baggage trains will work like they do in other AGEOD games: give a bonus to the firepower of the units and protect the units against the elements (and i really hope there´s winter in this game). Get the firepower bonus putting the wagon on the reserve, but risk it being captured if your army flees from the battle. If said army now must travel some provinces to reach a city/depot then you are double screwed, no baggage train=additional damage while traveling. In AGEOD games you can lose an army really fast if the terrain is rough and the weather is bad. Additionally baggage trains mean your army will move slower (it always moves at the pace of the slowest unit).

Hope all this is included, the supply is one of the nicest features in AGEOD games, and so is the winter wich can come early or late, and finish likewise. Plus it´s very coherent, with mountainous provinces getting the first snows (excellent way to tell you to enter winter quarters asap) and afterward extending to lower regions, with southern areas getting less/no snow, other small areas sometimes getting an early thaw...but i don´t know if Clausewitz can manage snowed/not snowed provinces

[SAS]

I believe it can, EUIII has it.

[takedown47]

i just jope it doesnt lag with all these calculations and processes going on under the hood

[SAS]

i just jope it doesnt lag with all these calculations and processes going on under the hood

I doubt it will, HOI3 has more and it runs lightning fast with the multicore support.

[takedown47]

yeah but i read reviews of pride of nations which said you had to wait like 5 mins between turns.

[SAS]

yeah but i read reviews of pride of nations which said you had to wait like 5 mins between turns.

Two different engines there, AGEOD and Clausewitz, Clausewitz faster (multi core support for new games!) and real time, AGEOD is turn based.