how will the Corps level manouvering be represented?

[veji1]

First of all, haven't posted here for a long long time.

Having played the AGEOD games, the jump to Clausewitz can be a bit unsettling as it is real time. I for once have no worries on the actual "battle" resolution. I don't see why the Phils shouldn't be able to ensure that the actual characteristics of war at the time will be implemented, be it the use of skirmishing, frontage, line versus columns etc.. All this will be abstracted in a way that I trust will feel realistic.

On the other hand I wonder how the game will be able to represent what made the essence of the Napoleonic type of war, ie corps level manouvering with eventual concentration for the very battle. That corps level manouvering was the salt of the period, the different corps tried to outmanouver the ennemy and through manouver bring about the very best circonstances for the resolution of the battle. It was made necessary by the need to travel lighter than the 18th century armies, which were slow plodding juggernauts of supply convoys, while the corps (around 20 000 men orginally) could travel fairly light, forage a good deal, protect your supply lines and threaten those of the ennemy. The concentration for battle occurred late.

Ageod Games rendered this pretty well through their use of the March to the Sound of Guns feature (MTSG). in 1 or 2 week long turns, the player often couldn't just do the concentration on the map himself but trust that if battle was joined the corps on neighbouring provinces would join.

How will this work in NCP2 ?

My fear is that this game could end up being a big stack against big stack a la EiA, which would be a shame.

[SAS]

Maybe some battle card type things or battle mechanics could solve this? Leader traits in battle?

[StephenT]

Ageod Games rendered this pretty well through their use of the March to the Sound of Guns feature (MTSG). in 1 or 2 week long turns, the player often couldn't just do the concentration on the map himself but trust that if battle was joined the corps on neighbouring provinces would join.

A feature like that is necessary in a turn-based game, because the player can't intervene directly to give more orders once he clicks 'End Turn'. In a real-time game, you can do it yourself: simply hit pause then command your other stacks in adjacent provinces to move to the sound of the guns. Or there may be an option to set stacks into 'reaction mode' where they do this automatically.

The problem of big stacks versus other big stacks is more a function of how many provinces there are on the map, not whether game is turn-based or real time. Lots of small provinces lets you split your army up into separate mutually-supporting stacks; fewer larger provinces means they all have to go in the same region.

[takedown47]

i just hope with a supply system of wagons and depots there will no longer be attrition for armies stationed in provinces (sure if they are moving withour supply and forced to live off the land, but not if well supplied)

[SAS]

i just hope with a supply system of wagons and depots there will no longer be attrition for armies stationed in provinces (sure if they are moving withour supply and forced to live off the land, but not if well supplied)

I think a supply depot would better represent this that the wagon train traveling with the corps/army.

[Lord Blekinge]

A chain of supply depots linked with wagon trains? Each army had their own specialized supply train units, the Royal Wagon train for Great Britain for example. So I could imagine that for a traditional continental army that would be the way of war, though the French did have a mixed system, living off the land and a supply train.

[kabiros]

I totally agree that the basic maneuver unit for the game should be the corps and the focus should be on the maneuver and mutual support of corps within the army. The Corps d'Armee organization of the French was arguably the most significant innovation and the defining characteristic of warfare during this period. NCP1 really captured this aspect of Napoleonic warfare. Postures should retain some sort of role in the new design, although I don't know how. Good thing we have AGEOD and Paradox teams on the job. Depots and supply wagons should be a fairly straight transition. I am really looking forward to this one...it should take the Clausewitz engine to the peak of its perfection.

[The Andy-Man]

for operational level war games, the AGEOD engine and The Art of War where brilliant. I can't quite see how it will transfer to clauswitz, but I can't wait to see what they come up with!

[victor charlie]

A feature like that is necessary in a turn-based game, because the player can't intervene directly to give more orders once he clicks 'End Turn'. In a real-time game, you can do it yourself: simply hit pause then command your other stacks in adjacent provinces to move to the sound of the guns. Or there may be an option to set stacks into 'reaction mode' where they do this automatically.

Yes but having that abiltiy to stop the game and order in every adjacent stack gives you a 21st century command and control which was not possible in the Napoleonic era.

The whole reason the French won more battles was the command and control devised by Napoleon was better, for a time, then the other European nations. The French corps did march to the sound of the guns. Being able to stop and click will not simulate this but reduce the game to a click-fest.

There will have to be other rules built into this to make it realistic?

[Legio_Desaix]

I don't think napoleon's corps normally marched to the sound of guns, they simply were instructed to make concentrated maneuvers to flank the main enemy army. That was the genious of Napoleon, to foresee enemy's movement and to direct his corps to encircle them or to concentrate nearby troops once the battle had begun.

[victor charlie]

Yes Corps commanders followed the standard procedure of marching to the sound of the guns unless instructed otherwise. This allowed Napoleon’s spread out corps to rapidly concentrate before the enemy could do the same and gain a numerical advantage in battle.

And this is from another site explaining the real advantages of the corps system, which gave France an advantage until at least 1808.

“In 1800 Napoleon permanently organized the army into corps, the corps d'armée. This allowed him to use multiple routes of advance and increased his ability to live off the land, which freed him from the logistic constraints to which so many of his enemies were prisoner. This in turn permitted the French army to move fast and far, and to prevent the enemy from determining its true objective.”