I Just Lost All Faith in Salem...

[xGhost4000x]

Well crud, I had a counter argument typed up but hit reply to thread and it started it over.

Basically I was saying that you are unhappy with the mechanics of the game because you would be unable to tell what a person can or cannot do with no skill cap.

Let us assume there is a skill cap in place and you can learn 700 points worth of skills. Each skill taking 100 points max, etc, etc. Now, you are wandering around the woods and you see a lone woodsman chopping away at a tree. You approach because you assume he is just a random PvE player gather lumber. Once you get in close and start to converse with him WABAM! he guts you like a pig, steals your items, and runs off. You ask yourself "why did this just happen? and the answer is because you judged him based off what he was doing. In a game with skill caps, people can play possum and bait you in for the kill. You assumed he was non-combat oriented when in fact, he had only enough points in to gather wood and the rest into combat.

Now take the game with no skill caps. You are much more attuned at being cautious when you approach a random player because you know for a fact that he can have any skill he wants and at whatever skill level he trained it to.

Best to do as a child would when encountering someone you don't know and scream stranger danger while running away.


As for games being a flop because of a lack of skill caps....... Darkfall wasn't a flop. It was a niche game with a small target demographic. It is actually doing pretty well. They are changing the skill cap system only because it is a PvP oriented game. New players stood no chance against the battle hardened vets. Mortal Online HAS skill caps and is a failure because of the absolutely terrible job the dev team did on the game. As for Wurm Online, I am unable to comment on because I have never played it. I hear good things about it though, and it is also a small target niche game.

Can't compare any of these games with UO or SWG because they were created and released in a different MMO environment completely. UO was the father of MMOs. It was a success because it was one of, it not the only MMO out at the time (1997). SWG did well because it was a HUGE ip and had little competition in the sandbox genre (development began in 2000, was released in '03). It offered a sci-fi setting with a 3d world as opposed to UO's "2.5d" high fantasy setting.

I'd just like to add that EVE online does not have a cap.

[Ivashanko]

You don't know what ur talking about.
And I'm not assuming you're making excuses, I know because me and Mr Tugles have have proven you wrong.
There is no other reason for disliking this system other than being scared.

I'm with Far. I don't think you know what you're talking about..

[Macyo]

I'm with Far. I don't think you know what you're talking about..

Dear Mr Ivaskanko..
It's you that don't know what you're talking about.
Btw, Did you use google translate to say that? (no offense meant, Just curious )

[zenarion]

EVE has no caps on what you can learn. Just that you will be investing lots of time.

I also am very much amused at how people take personal offence and say that they won't play a certain game because of that mechanic.

[xato13]

I haven't read through all of the comments.
But i find it odd that you give these games with caps as example for games without caps.
Since mortal online, darkfall and wurm all have caps. mortal online a sett amount of points.
Darkfall and wurm have a cap at 100 skill.
So they suck becuase they do not have caps then they do?XD
I do not get that argument, i am sorry...

[MisterTuggles]

I haven't read through all of the comments.
But i find it odd that you give these games with caps as example for games without caps.
Since mortal online, darkfall and wurm all have caps. mortal online a sett amount of points.
Darkfall and wurm have a cap at 100 skill.
So they suck becuase they do not have caps then they do?XD
I do not get that argument, i am sorry...

Wow....
We are talking about a cap on the amount of skills you can train, not the cap on the skill itself.... Of course all skills will have a cap. If they didn't it would be a pointless game to play as you could never reach the end of training on a specific skill.


He is trying to say that the game will be bad because you can train every single skill in the game to its maximum on one character. What he wants is something along the lines of Ultima Online where you have a pool of 700-1200 points (depending on the account age) to spend across any of the skills. This only allows you to specialize in a few things or gimp yourself by spreading the points around willy nilly.

[MagicManICT]

Well, permadeath makes this whole thread pointless. What do you do when you eventually lose that "god" character with all the skills trained and all possible things going to max? You WILL die. This isn't Diablo/D2 where you can make a private game to grind your character up in. You WILL run into griefers that will kill you just because they can.

I'd like to point out Haven & Hearth here. Not a single mention of this game which is completely uncapped. Because of the game mechanics, it works. Yes, you have a few players in villages and as hermits that make a jack-of-all-trades, or at least try to... until they lose that character. Then it's on to the forums to nerdraeg about how the game is unfair... blah blah blah. I don't know if multiple characters per account or multiple accounts will be addressed, but that will be a bigger killer to the "fairness" of the game than not having a limited number of skill points to distribute.

In my opinion, the opposite is true. Capping how many skills a character can learn is a detriment to new players and gives way too much power to vets. New players invariably screw up character development and end up with a gimp. Even more veteran players can fall to this and lose track of a development plan. It also requires massive amounts of non-play time in deciding how best to make the "best" item X. (This is being billed as a crafting game, yes? Who would want to do anything other than craft? ) This also promotes the massive use of alts that have only one, maybe two purposes, so that issue doesn't get resolved. To me, it sounds like the OP (and those backing him/her up) just doesn't want to try something "different" to see how it REALLY works. Not all systems are built the same. It takes different mindsets to work in them. An open skills game is as much different from a limited skills game as a open skills game is different from a class based system. Besides, in reality, all a limited skills game is is a class based game with no defined classes.

I do want to comment about EVE: the training time on skills is so freakishly long that even the oldest of vets don't even have half the skills in the game trained to the cap. Those that have undertaken things such as "fly every ship in the game" have found it takes years to reach that goal and then are gimp to a player who has mastered a few ships when all other factors are equal. The highest SP characters have mastered one or two of the skill groups, but have barely even touched others. It just really can't be compared in this argument.

[KaiserMuffin]

EVE has no caps on what you can learn. Just that you will be investing lots of time.

I also am very much amused at how people take personal offence and say that they won't play a certain game because of that mechanic.

I dunno. It's kinda unfair you can never catch up with the guy whose been on EVE since it started.

[MisterTuggles]

I dunno. It's kinda unfair you can never catch up with the guy whose been on EVE since it started.

The whole thing with Eve is that you can have every single skill in the game trained to 5, but it means nothing in actual combat. Ships are designed with only a few skills in mind. Each ship only uses a handful of those skills when piloting which leaves the hundreds of other skills you trained to 5 meaningless at the time. A person can specialize to fly one specific ship and have all the skill trained for it in 6-12 months. If that ship they specialize in is the counter for the ship the vet is flying and they are similarly rigged/player skill, then the new player would win in most cases.

[sabinati]

I dunno. It's kinda unfair you can never catch up with the guy whose been on EVE since it started.

EVE doesn't have permadeath, though?

[xGhost4000x]

EVE doesn't have permadeath, though?

No, it does not.

[zenarion]

Unless you keep your clone updated, you will lose all skills when killed.

[Tishler]

Unless you keep your clone updated, you will lose all skills when killed.

Nah, you lose XP in your highest skill, not all of them. There'd be a lot more raging on the forums if you lost everything when you crept 1 xp past your clone limit.

[proknah]

The main thing to be done, is to get rid of twink or alt character system, which is highly used in haven & hearth.
P.S. 1st post. ^^

[Bad Karma]

Yep the game will suck.

1. Item donate. No comments...it cannot be even argued...it does not have ANY pros in the game, but the consequences are what we all know.

2. Since when did colonists become christmas gnomes?

3. Closed alpha period would mean that 50 of approved players will learn 99 % of the games content and will have that overpowered knowledge and experinece at the release which means that they will have a powerstart (they will know all the secrets, easter eggs if there are any and other tricks to make their gameplay better), while others, not approved will have to learn everything from scratch.


Not interested. *closes window*

[Onionfighter]

3. Closed alpha period would mean that 50 of approved players will learn 99 % of the games content and will have that overpowered knowledge and experinece at the release which means that they will have a powerstart (they will know all the secrets, easter eggs if there are any and other tricks to make their gameplay better), while others, not approved will have to learn everything from scratch.

Yes, god forbid anyone test the game for balance or bugs.

And just so you know, the alpha testers are making their own wiki, which can be shared once we are allowed to talk about the game. What a bunch of bastards!

[Bad Karma]

Yes, god forbid anyone test the game for balance or bugs.

And just so you know, the alpha testers are making their own wiki, which can be shared once we are allowed to talk about the game. What a bunch of bastards!

First off, you only answered on one of my points which means you agree with the rest... lazy donator, get some skills.

Secondly, your point protecting early alfa bootlicks (because thats how they are gonna pick up alpha testers...if you have your own opinion - ur not in) is just redicilous. My point was whole map knowdledge (including good mining/village/hunting/fishing etc. spots), secrets, bugs (some of which may not be reported so as it abbuse it at the release to gain some advantage) as well as other tricks and secrets and/or easter eggs which would NOT be in wiki. Nice try, bootlick.

Next time prepare your arguments more carefully as this was fail and isnt even close to make me change my opinion. *unlikes Facebook page thus resigning from the news updates).

[Potjeh]

Literally LMAO.

[sabinati]

LOL, Bad Karma, still mad?

[Bad Karma]

Yes, Bad Karma, that's true, but I cannot admit it since I am one of the bootlicks alpha testers and I am already saving on food for my kids in order to purchase some pixels in Salem and ruin its economy and become rich in no time...so basically I will just say "still mad?" cuz I cannot have my own opinion even though what you say is true and other ppl such as Onionlick cannot provide proper arguments against your points regarding Salem, Bad Karma

FIXED!!!!! My work here is done...