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Thread: Warlock against Fallen enchantress

  1. #1

    Warlock against Fallen enchantress

    Warlock is going to be in direct competition with Fallen enchantress (FE), from stardock.
    I tried FE, it's turning to be a very good game, with tactical combat, quests, city management, objects, inventory, deep and varied research tree, moddability, champions, unit "crafting" and so on.

    Warlock really need to be good, and real players won't be long mistaken by pretty graphics, if there is no deepness in the gameplay (1upt is hinting that at least for battles, gameplay deepness will be pretty poor).

    I know I can sound offensive. I don't totally mean to be. I would just like Warlock to be a Great game. I don't feel it will be right know, and years in expecting games have made me cautious. Good surprises are pretty rare in the industry... :-(

    Why can't Devs just take the best of good old games (MoM, AoW, MoO I and II, Ufo EU, and so on), expand them a bit, with pretty graphics ?
    Last edited by Cernunos; 23-01-2012 at 16:37.

  2. #2
    Second Lieutenant PawelS's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cernunos View Post
    1upt is hinting that at least for battles, gameplay deepness will be pretty poor
    I disagree, for me 1upt combat is much "deeper" than Civ4-style Stack of Death combat. Of course tactical battles are a good option too, but I'm fine with 1upt (but there are already a few threads about this subject here, so let's not start the discussion in another one).

    Why can't Devs just take the best of good old games (MoM, AoW, MoO I and II, Ufo EU, and so on), expand them a bit, with pretty graphics ?
    That's a good idea, especially with MoM. I'm waiting for a game similar to MoM for ages... But it seems Warlock will be more similar to Civ5, which isn't bad for me either.

  3. #3
    Considering all of the bad press surrounding FE, its butt-ugly art direction, and its bland as hell setting the only thing going for FE is that it's free for those people who were swindled back in 2010.

    So long as Warlock does not fail spectacularly in a similar fashion as War of Magic I'm pretty sure the only competition it will have is from Firaxis' remake of X-Com.
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  4. #4
    yep, FE is an amazing game, beautiful artstyle, innovative game mechanisms, deep gameplay. I recommend the game to everyone who likes TB strategy games. I purchased the original Elemental game, though I didn't play it much. And yes, the game had some design issues, but I found it not as bad as the press made it. Most people don't actually seem very open minded, and intuitively oppose innovative ideas. Anyway, playing the beta the last few days has been a great pleasure.
    On the other side, FE being a fantastic game will not prevent me from getting warlock too, as I think it is going to be a good game too, not as innovative as FE, but a solid Civ oriented fantasy TB game. Btw, IMHO there is no need to obesessively value everything according to the category of competitiveness.

  5. #5
    @redwitch: lolwut.

    Elemental was a broken mess of a game that had no idea where it was going directionally. It was a feature-bloated mess where every feature was 1/4 done and not integrated with the rest of the game. The main sense of enjoyment I got out of it was inbreeding my descendents without any of them realising it and laughing my arse off at their amazing retardation.

    Quote Originally Posted by timetogetaway View Post
    Considering all of the bad press surrounding FE, its butt-ugly art direction, and its bland as hell setting the only thing going for FE is that it's free for those people who were swindled back in 2010.

    So long as Warlock does not fail spectacularly in a similar fashion as War of Magic I'm pretty sure the only competition it will have is from Firaxis' remake of X-Com.
    I'm gonna try out FE today. I was one of those who was swindled.

  6. #6
    Regardless of individual opinion, Elemental WoM was so bad to so many people that even the developers admitted it and gave everyone who bought it a free game. And quite honestly after putting a significant amount of time into the FE beta, the only things that have changed since WoM are very shallow cosmetic fixes and additions. It's the same game with more flavor text and a slightly better UI. After about 50 turns of killing new and old monsters and doing the same buggy quests with different text, the game boils down to the exact same gameplay as WoM against the exact same horrible AI that couldn't fight its way out of a paper bag. Supposedly this beta is "near complete" too because they didn't want to push out something missing features and give people a bad impression. I really don't think the game is going to compete with anything, the only people that are going to play it are the people who got it for free. Stardock just spent a year digging a bigger hole instead of doing something they are good at like making a GalCiv expansion or sequel.

  7. #7
    East vs West developer Leonaru's Avatar
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    It's too late for Elemental. Stardock might regain a small amount of reputation, but they won't have a chance against Warlock, which has been semi-established through the Majesty games.
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  8. #8
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    I've been playing the Fallen Enchantress beta release for the last week in my spare time and all I can say is this is one awesome game. Very little of the mechanics that hindered War of Magic remain in the game and much has been completely rebuilt from scratch. I was very disappointed in WoM but FE is already a great game. I was not expecting a lot from FE after WoM and was actually waiting for Warlock to be released to fill this niche for me, but now I'm hoping Warlock will be able to compete with FE.

    Still be buying Warlock when it releases - just hope it is as good as Fallen Enchantress.

  9. #9
    The issue with Fallen Enchantress: There's no epic wizardry. Like in MoM, you could cast spells that would basically change the face of the game... There doesn't seem to be any of that in Fallen Enchantress.

    I guess it's because they've tried to also allow your sovereign to be a non-mage type, but it's just a bad idea. There also doesn't seem to be any utility spells and the shards don't have very much functionality.

    It's a B-grade fantasy turn-based strategy game, not a game of wizards duking it out with big arse spells.

    For now, I'll carry on playing Dominions 3.

  10. #10
    For now, I'll carry on playing Dominions 3.
    yep, that's certainly a good game, too

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by redwitch View Post
    yep, that's certainly a good game, too
    It just gives me what I want in a mage-ish game. I can cast spells that cause everyone else's in the world to bugger up, I can cast spells that cause legions of zombies to raise up and ravage my enemies, I can cast spells that blot out the ********* sun...

    It's just beautiful.
    Last edited by aesk; 11-04-2012 at 09:30. Reason: language

  12. #12
    Major Thormodr's Avatar
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    Watch the language please. ^

    Fallen Enchantress looks very good from the Beta so far. It's a work in progress but it's going to be outstanding.

    W:MOTA looks very promising as well but it will be a different type of game. W:MOTA may look like Civilization 5 but I have the feeling it will be a lot better than that horrendous, half baked piece of crud.

    Anyway, the more the merrier in the Fantasy TBS field. Competition is good.

    Elemental:Fallen Enchantress will be extremely moddable. I hope that W:MOTA will be as well.
    Last edited by Thormodr; 26-01-2012 at 05:30.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonaru View Post
    It's too late for Elemental. Stardock might regain a small amount of reputation, but they won't have a chance against Warlock, which has been semi-established through the Majesty games.
    I wouldn't be so quick to write off Elemental: Fallen Enchantress.

    Derek Paxton (Kael) is in charge and he clearly knows what he is doing.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Thormodr View Post
    I wouldn't be so quick to write off Elemental: Fallen Enchantress.

    Derek Paxton (Kael) is in charge and he clearly knows what he is doing.
    The issue is that frogdog is an unmitigated disaster zone on his own who focused too much on his generic world's lore and not enough on the fun of the game.

  15. #15
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    I think the winner will be the one with more moddabily and the biggest community. If any of the two games has the ability of civilization IV for making good fanmade mods, that one will be a very good game.
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Astasia View Post
    Regardless of individual opinion, Elemental WoM was so bad to so many people that even the developers admitted it and gave everyone who bought it a free game. And quite honestly after putting a significant amount of time into the FE beta, the only things that have changed since WoM are very shallow cosmetic fixes and additions. It's the same game with more flavor text and a slightly better UI. After about 50 turns of killing new and old monsters and doing the same buggy quests with different text, the game boils down to the exact same gameplay as WoM against the exact same horrible AI that couldn't fight its way out of a paper bag. Supposedly this beta is "near complete" too because they didn't want to push out something missing features and give people a bad impression. I really don't think the game is going to compete with anything, the only people that are going to play it are the people who got it for free. Stardock just spent a year digging a bigger hole instead of doing something they are good at like making a GalCiv expansion or sequel.
    I think you're being a bit harsh on Fallen Enchantress. I agree that Elemental was a huge failure (I had pre-ordered it) but I tried the Fallen Enchantress Beta and I thought it was vastly improved compared to War of Magic. Better loot, better quests, better spells, different factions, better leveling up... Just all around way better.

    Honestly, when I saw the Warlock video DD yesterday I was a bit disappointed. Any game that claims to be a spiritual successor to MoM will pique my interest but the content seemed a little weak to me. 3 playable factions? Humans, undead, and "monsters"? Monsters? It's hard not to come up with something more original than that.

    I love Paradox games and I may still get Warlock when it comes out but at this point I am a lot more excited about Fallen Enchantress than Warlock.
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  17. #17
    Second Lieutenant PawelS's Avatar

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    You're right about the factions, there should be more of them. Perhaps they will be added in DLCs or mods... Also I'm a bit disappointed by the lack of cavalry and siege machines (at least I can't see them on the videos or screenshots). But when it comes to general ideas and game mechanics, I prefer Warlock so far.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by BandC View Post
    I think you're being a bit harsh on Fallen Enchantress. I agree that Elemental was a huge failure (I had pre-ordered it) but I tried the Fallen Enchantress Beta and I thought it was vastly improved compared to War of Magic. Better loot, better quests, better spells, different factions, better leveling up... Just all around way better.

    Honestly, when I saw the Warlock video DD yesterday I was a bit disappointed. Any game that claims to be a spiritual successor to MoM will pique my interest but the content seemed a little weak to me. 3 playable factions? Humans, undead, and "monsters"? Monsters? It's hard not to come up with something more original than that.

    I love Paradox games and I may still get Warlock when it comes out but at this point I am a lot more excited about Fallen Enchantress than Warlock.
    Yeah, Fallen Enchantress is better than WoM, but it still sucks. They've still done nothing with shards, magic still sucks staves (with knobs on the end) and the tech tree is just outright bad. Maybe a third iteration and they'll get it right but I won't be getting that for three so... Yeah.

    In all fairness, it's better than "GOOD KINGDOMS " and "BAD EMPIRES " with literally 0 functional distinctions between them. And you have to think that it's based off Majesty's lore, which isn't really set up for something like this. Even undead and monsters being seperate factions is cutting it close.

    Really? I mean, Fallen Enchantress that's been modded to the nines (at the very least, I'm gonna do a balance patch when it comes out and completely overhaul the game to be more about magic users and less about exploiting the horribly broken initiative mechanic) might be alright, but Warlock is looking to be a better base game.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by BandC View Post
    I think you're being a bit harsh on Fallen Enchantress. I agree that Elemental was a huge failure (I had pre-ordered it) but I tried the Fallen Enchantress Beta and I thought it was vastly improved compared to War of Magic. Better loot, better quests, better spells, different factions, better leveling up... Just all around way better.
    I agree those specific aspects are "better," except for the factions which are still all the same, but the problem with FE is all those things you talked about are "the first 50 turns." Then you clear out all the quests in your area and all the lairs, and then you are left with one of the worst strategy war games in existence which has almost no improvements over WoM. You either steam roll the worst AI ever designed with overpowered champions, or you build swarms of boring generic soldiers with your only options being "hit with the blunt thing or the sharp thing."

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by BandC
    Humans, undead, and "monsters"? Monsters? It's hard not to come up with something more original than that.
    It depends how true Warlock is to Majesty canon. Frankly, there weren't a lot of "monster" variety in Majesty (even undead were "monsters", so that surprises me that it's its own faction); only Goblins and Ratmen had any depth and variety in units. Not sure how much Majesty 2 expanded on the "monster genre" though....

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