+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 58

Thread: Dwarf Fortress

  1. #21
    First Lieutenant The_Phoenix's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIEU3 CompleteHearts of Iron IIIVictoria 2CK2: Holy Knight
    500k clubEuropa Universalis IV: Pre-order

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Confederate States of America
    Posts
    248
    I always wanted to play Dwarf Fortress but its just too much game for me. Check out Castle Story, its going to be good too.

  2. #22
    Field Marshal Alex_brunius's Avatar
    200k clubAchtung PanzerArsenal of DemocracyHearts of Iron 2: ArmageddonCities in Motion
    Cities in Motion 2Crusader Kings IIDeus VultEU3 CompleteFor the Motherland
    Hearts of Iron IIIHOI3: Their Finest HourHeir to the ThroneMagickaMajesty 2
    Victoria: RevolutionsRome GoldSemper FiSword of the StarsSword of the Stars II
    Victoria 2Victoria II: A House DividedCK2: Holy Knight500k club

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    10,817
    Give us dwarf fortress with graphics!

    I love just ordering lots of digging and watch the dwarfs go about their daily life (and death)


    Especially this part sounds much more like Dwarf fortress then Dungeon keeper or any other game:

    "The game generates a unique world each time a new level starts, making sure that the player needs to dynamically adapt their strategies and tactics during a session.

    As the player advances, the dwarves will level up and gain new skills, progressing from weak dwarflings to near immortal warriors or master craftsmen. There are also rare resources to be found deeper in the earth that grant access to better buildings and equipment. However, the deeper you dig the more dangerous foes you might unleash…"
    "A good plan, violently executed now, is better than a perfect plan next week." - Patton

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex_brunius View Post
    Give us dwarf fortress with graphics!
    Do not give us this. Dwarf Fortress being copied in a short time span, hastily thrown together with mediocre 3D graphics and 1/100,000th the features is not a great game. Any clone of DF is not a good game. DF is indie greatness and should not be exploited for a quick buck. Moreover, there are graphics packs for 2D tiles for DF, just like most roguelike styled games, and some of those are beautiful. Nothing will ever be made that can match or clone DF in a way that makes it actually buyable. Same goes for Minecraft clones.

    I am more excited by the dungeon keeper clone side of this than the hopes for DF ripoffs. Originality is what brings me to Paradox published games, not "How fast can we steal ideas from other people."

  4. #24
    Commissar BootOnFace's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIDarkest HourDeus VultEU3 CompleteDivine Wind
    Hearts of Iron III CollectionHOI3: Their Finest HourHeir to the ThroneVictoria 2Victoria II: A House Divided
    Victoria II: Heart of DarknessCK2: Holy Knight500k clubEuropa Universalis IV

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Combined Syndicates of America
    Posts
    1,242
    I want to play this game more than DF, mainly because DF is intimidating.
    If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever.
    -George Orwell

  5. #25
    Field Marshal Alex_brunius's Avatar
    200k clubAchtung PanzerArsenal of DemocracyHearts of Iron 2: ArmageddonCities in Motion
    Cities in Motion 2Crusader Kings IIDeus VultEU3 CompleteFor the Motherland
    Hearts of Iron IIIHOI3: Their Finest HourHeir to the ThroneMagickaMajesty 2
    Victoria: RevolutionsRome GoldSemper FiSword of the StarsSword of the Stars II
    Victoria 2Victoria II: A House DividedCK2: Holy Knight500k club

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    10,817
    Quote Originally Posted by Luckymoose View Post
    I am more excited by the dungeon keeper clone side of this than the hopes for DF ripoffs.
    This makes no sense. Why would it be less stealing to clone Dungeon keeper then DF??? :S

    Quote Originally Posted by Luckymoose View Post
    Originality is what brings me to Paradox published games, not "How fast can we steal ideas from other people."
    All progress and games are based on previous ideas taken and improved upon. You may not look at it that way, but the way you put it Dwarf fortress was also "stolen" from previous games, fantasy books/worlds and so on.

    It's not like the maker of DF invented dwarfs or their behaviour...

    Ideas are free, and they grow when shared and mixed. Regardless of what corporate media industry lawyers may try to tell you.

    Since DF was never made in a user friendly way doing just that wouldn't be stealing, it would still be an original game.
    Last edited by Alex_brunius; 25-01-2012 at 10:50.
    "A good plan, violently executed now, is better than a perfect plan next week." - Patton

  6. #26
    Corporal Tryggen's Avatar
    Cities in MotionCrusader Kings IIEuropa Universalis: ChroniclesHearts of Iron III CollectionMagicka
    Majesty 2Rome GoldSengokuSword of the StarsMount & Blade: Warband
    Warlock: Master of the Arcane500k clubEuropa Universalis IV: Pre-order

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    40
    Quote Originally Posted by Cloer View Post
    thx looks good will check it out, any other recomendations for DF like games! i like sandbox administration/building games!
    Look up "Evil Genius" if you've not already played it, it's a great game and there's some fan-patches if i remember correctly to improve it.

  7. #27
    It's a shame it will not be like DF.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex_brunius View Post
    This makes no sense. Why would it be less stealing to clone Dungeon keeper then DF??? :S


    All progress and games are based on previous ideas taken and improved upon. You may not look at it that way, but the way you put it Dwarf fortress was also "stolen" from previous games, fantasy books/worlds and so on.

    It's not like the maker of DF invented dwarfs or their behaviour...

    Ideas are free, and they grow when shared and mixed. Regardless of what corporate media industry lawyers may try to tell you.

    Since DF was never made in a user friendly way doing just that wouldn't be stealing, it would still be an original game.
    DF is user friendly, and is certainly original. Using cliches to define a fantasy setting is not the same as making an outright copy of a game, and a downgraded version at that, and calling yourself original.

  9. #29
    Yeah. DF is user friendly. It is user friendly like 6 years old running with a scissors on mine field which is bombarded by wing of fully armed Enola Gay ...

  10. #30
    Field Marshal Alex_brunius's Avatar
    200k clubAchtung PanzerArsenal of DemocracyHearts of Iron 2: ArmageddonCities in Motion
    Cities in Motion 2Crusader Kings IIDeus VultEU3 CompleteFor the Motherland
    Hearts of Iron IIIHOI3: Their Finest HourHeir to the ThroneMagickaMajesty 2
    Victoria: RevolutionsRome GoldSemper FiSword of the StarsSword of the Stars II
    Victoria 2Victoria II: A House DividedCK2: Holy Knight500k club

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    10,817
    Quote Originally Posted by Luckymoose View Post
    DF is user friendly,...
    Sorry, but I stopped reading after that... Just can't stop laughing
    "A good plan, violently executed now, is better than a perfect plan next week." - Patton

  11. #31
    Private
    Crusader Kings II

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    France
    Posts
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by Luckymoose View Post
    DF is user friendly, and is certainly original. Using cliches to define a fantasy setting is not the same as making an outright copy of a game, and a downgraded version at that, and calling yourself original.
    Quote Originally Posted by Colombo
    Yeah. DF is user friendly. It is user friendly like 6 years old running with a scissors on mine field which is bombarded by wing of fully armed Enola Gay ...
    I agree with the above poster. DF is user friendly like vi is user friendly: great for power users that have already traversed the insanely steep learning curve and learned how to make use of programs that are set up completely differently than mainstream user interfaces.

    If a Game of Dwarves turns out to be a DF lite that is user friendly (tutorials, tooltips, etc.) with a greatly enhanced user interface (i.e. not ASCII based) and real graphics to boot, that would be right up my alley. And I imagine right up a lot of other people's alleys.

    And we can always dream: those who discover the "dwarf fortress" genre through a Game of Dwarves might just be enticed to go check out its forefather!

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Luckymoose View Post
    DF is user friendly, and is certainly original. Using cliches to define a fantasy setting is not the same as making an outright copy of a game, and a downgraded version at that, and calling yourself original.
    There is a great snobbery from those who have done the learning curve for DF (well most - I don't think I'm a snob)
    "We've learned it - it's hard [sometimes for no discernable reason or benefit to the player] and if you can't learn it yourself then you don't deserve to play and the game is better off without you"

    People like to think they are in part of an exclusive "brains trust" club. And that's very sad.
    A game with the depth and scope of DF would be great for all players. 50% of the complexity is fighting with the UI. And an unintuitive UI in 2012 is pretty much inexcusable.
    DF gets away with it because it's not sold commercially. But if someone would put a decent UI on it, it would sell like hotcakes. Look at Minecraft - Notch retired 3 weeks after his first game launched....

    "User friendly"
    Depends on your definition.
    But for games made in the last 15 years, DF is one of the most unfriendly to learn (and I know it inside out) Two different sets of movement keys for the maps (cursor and number pad) several ways to activate a menu option (all specific "enter" here "x" there - you have to know the right one for the right circumstance)

    Sure - going back to the days of making DOS batch files just to get a game to install then DF might be seen as friendly - but in comparison to games from the last 17 years..no it really isn't. Sometimes it's just plain obtuse. But if you play for tens of hours you forget that, but that doesn't change the learning curve.

    "Towns" has about 80% of the depth of DF. "Haven and Hearth" though slightly different is pretty good as well. "Salem - The Crafting RPG" out later this year will get a look also.
    Last edited by scritty; 26-01-2012 at 16:14.

  13. #33
    ...It's nice up here! Alfryd's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIMajesty 2

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    1,850
    Quote Originally Posted by Deaghaidh View Post
    Didn't want to quote the whole post, but that was a good summation of what they would be wise to learn from DF. I'd add the virtually infinite replayability and open sandbox style, as well as how it joyfully embraces community modification.
    Oh, absolutely. I don't want to come down too hard on DF, because the project as a whole is one with objectives that I can really sympathise with, personally, and it's a great example to study for ideas (albeit, in some cases, ideas of 'what not to do'.)

    I mean, to give an example of what I'm talking about, there was an extensive thread on the DF forums on the subject of improving farming mechanics that basically talked about implementing a full-fledged ecosystem simulation, which I found absolutely fascinating. (This is kind of why I'm hoping Toady One will eventually open-source the damn thing, partly so that ideas like this can actually be implemented, and partly because there've been some suggestions that DF may be nearing critical mass.)

  14. #34
    Field Marshal Zarine's Avatar
    CK2: Holy KnightEU3 Collectors Edition500k clubEuropa Universalis IV: Pre-order

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Antibes,France
    Posts
    3,551
    Quote Originally Posted by scritty View Post
    "User friendly"
    Depends on your definition.
    But for games made in the last 15 years, DF is one of the most unfriendly to learn (and I know it inside out) Two different sets of movement keys for the maps (cursor and number pad) several ways to activate a menu option (all specific "enter" here "x" there - you have to know the right one for the right circumstance)
    I call that accessible not user friendly. For me, a user friendly game provide enough information for you to know what you do, why you can't do it, how you can do that.
    For that matter the menu is quite good. If you know what you want to do, there is a pretty high chance that if it exists you'll find it quick.

    But as you stated, you have to know what key activate what (I changed like 80 key in order to find it nice).

    If I take Towns (I tried right after I saw people speaking of it), it's accessible but not user friendly at all (I hope and guess it's only because it's a alpha/beta).
    Knowing the basics (from DF) and looking at a video, I started to make a carpentry and so... then I decided that I would need a farm... I found the building and was unable to know the reason why I couldn't put it anywhere (that made me quit the game right away). I didn't get why I have to put tools in workshop exept that it's needed to create stuff, but why create a carpenter workshop if it only enable placing tools and keeping in mind that without adding them, the workshop is useless...

    I call that not user friendly.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by scritty View Post
    There is a great snobbery from those who have done the learning curve for DF (well most - I don't think I'm a snob)
    "We've learned it - it's hard [sometimes for no discernable reason or benefit to the player] and if you can't learn it yourself then you don't deserve to play and the game is better off without you"

    People like to think they are in part of an exclusive "brains trust" club. And that's very sad.
    A game with the depth and scope of DF would be great for all players. 50% of the complexity is fighting with the UI. And an unintuitive UI in 2012 is pretty much inexcusable.
    DF gets away with it because it's not sold commercially. But if someone would put a decent UI on it, it would sell like hotcakes. Look at Minecraft - Notch retired 3 weeks after his first game launched....

    "User friendly"
    Depends on your definition.
    But for games made in the last 15 years, DF is one of the most unfriendly to learn (and I know it inside out) Two different sets of movement keys for the maps (cursor and number pad) several ways to activate a menu option (all specific "enter" here "x" there - you have to know the right one for the right circumstance)
    .
    I've played DF since 06, and the UI we have now is light years beyond the original. People who cry about graphics or UI's are not enjoying the game, but the visuals. I cannot have faith in a gaming community that wants superior graphics over gameplay.

  16. #36
    Lt. General John Forseti's Avatar
    HoI AnthologyFor the Motherland500k club

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    People's Republic of Darlington
    Posts
    1,331
    Thats an utterly ridiculous statement, if it were true people would be equally satisfied looking at a screenshot or trailer to actually playing a game. The problem with the total lack of graphics and an interface thats as difficult to navigate as a cannoe in a hurricaine isn't that it's not particularly pretty it's that it doesn't effectively convey information.

    It's as if you were suddenly handed a book in Old English instead of modern English, sure its possible to understand and learn it, but only after a great deal of time and effort. And that time and effort is understandly not something a lot of people will put up with from their entertainment.

  17. #37
    Lt. General Dotto1979's Avatar
    A Game of DwarvesCities in MotionCrusader Kings IIDeus VultEU3 Complete
    Divine WindHearts of Iron III CollectionHeir to the ThroneMagickaMajesty II Collection
    Penumbra - Black PlagueSword of the StarsVictoria 2Victoria II: A House DividedHearts of Iron: The Card Game
    CK2: Holy Knight500k clubEuropa Universalis IV: Pre-orderEUIV: Call to arms event

    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Rio
    Posts
    1,387
    So you think the UI is great? Or are you saying that when you enjoy a game you have to turn your eyes away from what is bad?
    It is not about graphics, it's about interface. A game can have an ugly but well made and responsive interface. Dwarf Fortress interface is the main single problem of the whole game and what really would benefit most the game if it was revamped. Just go to bay12 forum and ask around if the interface is good. I doubt someone will agree with you. It's not about being beautiful or ugly, it's about being extremely counter-intuitive. Enjoyed the game a lot, but I recognize the UI is the worst part. In 2006 is was even worse, but that doesn't make it great now. We are in 2012 and you can't even use a mouse on almost the whole game. Nobody is talking about something superior than anything. Or are you trying to say that a game that is not as complex as DF can't be good?

  18. #38
    If I wanted to play a game like Dwarf Fortress I would simply play it in my head, I really don't need the infrastructure and rules that the program creates. However, playing something in the head is not the same as playing a game with good graphics.

  19. #39
    I have just recently heard about the game via the coverage of Paradox Con and decided to see what was in the forums... I am not surprised to set this thread right at the top.

    It's hard not to make the immediate comparisons to Dwarf Fortress. The developers gave themselves quite a challenge by overlapping with DF on many levels. I can imagine some frustration on their part and can sympathize to an extent. It is quite similar to Terraria, which overlaps with Minecraft to a comical extent. As such, many people simply write it off as a clone. To be fair, it does share quite a bit but there is enough different and interesting about it to make it worthwhile to play one, the other, or both, and not have it feel like a clone.

    The comparisons will be made no matter how much it might seem like Dungeon Keeper, no matter how much it might be different, better, or unrelated. By having "dwarf" in the title and making it a dwarf management game, the immediately obvious superficial similarities will always draw comments about DF.

    This is really just the beginning - in my opinion Dwarves are the new Zombies. For years it has been zombies zombies zombies, to the point where we are adding zombies to every game genre imaginable. I imagine that we will see many more Dwarf/Mining/Digging/Construction games in the future. (And I'm looking forward to it!)

    As an aside, I love Dwarf Fortress and all the idiosyncrasies of its quirky interface and lack of immediate help. I don't mind checking a wiki, I don't mind having to look things up, and I don't mind the complexity and sometimes counter-intuitive end results. There's room in this world for all types of games, and there are plenty more user-friendly games out there. But I would be very sad if we didn't have games like DF around to take up that little sliver at the far end of the bell curve. I also enjoy ASCII-only roguelikes, so perhaps I am just a glutton for punishment.

  20. #40
    Major City Builder's Avatar
    A Game of DwarvesHearts of Iron 2: ArmageddonCities in MotionCities in Motion 2Crusader Kings II
    Europa Universalis 3EU3 CompleteHearts of Iron IIIImpireLeviathan: Warships
    MagickaMajesty 2Europa Universalis: RomeSemper FiSengoku
    Sword of the StarsSword of the Stars IISupreme Ruler: Cold WarSupreme Ruler 2020Victoria 2
    Rome: Vae VictisWarlock: Master of the Arcane

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Check your moms basement
    Posts
    744
    The thing I would worry about, is the early comparisons to other well known games, this gets games into a really bad spot. So I hope that the developers squash that kind of talk right off the bat. We saw what happened to the game Dungeons because they overstepped their boundaries with reporting the game as a spiritual sucessor to DK. And once people started talking how it was going to be... bla bla bla, and the developers and publishers just let the talk going on, using the old noodle, or "any publicity is good publicity" which is not really true when it comes to games.

    Looking forward to more information about the game before I want to do any comparisons that would lead me to desire the game more, so that I don't get let down again.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts