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Thread: For a cheater trying to go straight

  1. #1

    For a cheater trying to go straight

    I'm going to make a run a doing an honest game. My choice is the Kingdom of England 1066. Is there any advice, tips, etc. as to what to avoid, what to go for, things like that?
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  2. #2
    Field Marshal jwolf's Avatar
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    Here are a few things that come to mind. Others may have better advice.

    At the beginning of the campaign, I suggest you avoid a mad conquest or crusade spree, but rather focus on internal stability and research and building improvements in your home provinces.

    Watch out for your sons and line of succession and make sure your game will continute to the next generation!

    Be careful to avoid excommunication. Be especially wary when your king dies and a new king comes to the throne (because he is likely to have low piety), or when a new Pope or Papal Controller is chosen. Check your king's piety against the Pope's prestige and give away a bishopric or two if you have to.

    Save a LOT of money before you attempt a serious overseas war, especially a crusade. To support the army of a major power such as England for the duration of such a war could easily cost 5 or even 10 thousand in gold.

    Fighting the Muslims on their home territory is likely to be difficult. Even if you start with numerical superiority, that probably will not last due to attrition and their much shorter distance to deploy new reinforcements. Be cautious and choosy about picking your opponents. At a later point in the campaign you might have a good secure base in Spain or Africa, for example, making additional wars near those areas much easier.

    If you have a vassal next to a powerful Muslim lord, your vassal is almost certain to be attacked. Unless you have a good army very close by, your vassal will be overwhelmed and conquered before you have a chance to save him. On the other hand, sometimes your vassals initiate near suicidal declarations of war and leave you dumbfounded in anger and disbelief. That's part of what makes the game exciting!

  3. #3
    Colonel Diet of Worms's Avatar
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    Some more general advice: DON'T PANIC!

    In other Paradox games, losing territory is a major event. Many games it simply won't happen to you. CK isn't like that at all - it can be ridiculously easy to grow when circumstance are right. But when things stack up against you, shedding territory is normal. Don't worry about it too much - don't immediately think you've failed and quit or cheat, its just part of the game. Even if you blow your way down from King of England to a single Count title, all you'd need is a good King (Count) for a decade or two, and a bit of luck (and all those claims you'll still have) to get it back again.

    A bit more specifically. Dukes with subordinate Counts are good, because their Counts' loyalty (which decides whether you can raise their troops) is to the Duke, not you. So if you have widespread loyalty problems among your direct vassals, you will still be able to raise most of their subordinate Counts' troops.

    Don't forget bribery. It is tedious to do en masse, but can avoid realm duress if you do so at the start of a reign if you have a lot of disloyal vassals. And if you really MUST raise the troops of a specific vassal, you can bribe him up to the required level. Oh and even if you run out of cash, you can still bribe in 100 gold increments (does add to your debt).

  4. #4
    Major Demi Moderator TMA_Cool's Avatar
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    How much you can go into debt until it starts damaging you?

  5. #5
    Colonel Diet of Worms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TMA_Cool View Post
    How much you can go into debt until it starts damaging you?
    Everyone's got a story My worst was somewhere south of -20,000.

    While you can't buy stuff, you can still add to your debt for the really important things - troop transport, army maintenance, bribes in 100 gold increments - with no limit.

    Beyond this the only damage is that you will periodically get events that destroy a building and give you a small amount of cash, these are annoying but not crippling. AFAIK the frequency of these events is not affected by how far you are in debt, so the only real difference between -100 and -100,000 is how long it will take you to get out of it.

    Possibly there are some stability reducing events as well, but these are not too frequent.

    When you are in debt you will also get "usury" events. These give you an option to "borrow" (it is actually a gift, you never have to pay it back) either nothing, a moderate amount, or a large amount. With a big kingdom these can be very significant amounts; many thousands. The downside is a chance to get very nasty traits, IIRC heretic and excommunicated. Generally it is something to avoid, but if you ever get really seriously in debt then this is your route back.

    For myself I'll avoid debt in an ideal world, but if there is something I want then I have no hesitation in taking it on, even in large amounts.

  6. #6
    I have just started to play the game in the same way. I always cheated using die, and byzantine terrible of me i know. ButI recently broke my keyboard and now the letters D, O, L dont work so im using the on screen keypad for this but obviously cant on the game.

    One thing I have done is to remove the titles of Cornwall, Somerset and Exeter to grant the Duchy of Cornwall to Richard. This done over time should allow you to keep your reputation hi. A slow removal of titles and a granting to your sons should help you keep prestige which you would of lost had your sons not been granted land.

    Also I used assassins to ensure the women i married my sons to were the only children left in semi salic country's allowing me to aquire more titles for myself and sons. Though this is dangerous and can easily go one way or the other.

    Hope that gives you pause for thought Mate

  7. #7
    Thank you, everyone. Not long after I started, and with almost no warning other than the flag at the corner of the screen, the duke of Northhampton (need to write quickly, but I'm referring to the northernmost duchy) dropped his loyalty to nothing. I just wrapped up a war with him and the count of Northhampton(the county in the duchy of Oxford), who did not like my actions (he might have become a rival not long before, I'll have to check). The Duke of Lancaster went the route of independence, and I plan to use assasins to help me get the land back. Is there anything which can improve the success chance in assasinations?

    EDIT: I was not actually at peace at the time of this writing.

    EDIT2: The count of Northhampton was not my rival.
    Last edited by Klein001; 22-01-2012 at 00:50.
    1.If you are up real late, and you find yourself getting mad and you know your brain is not working, get off the computer before you mess up!
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  8. #8
    General Grumpalodian Aardvark Bellay's Avatar
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    and I plan to use assasins to help me get the land back.
    Only ways i know that will help are either through inheritance or the new Duke will rather ask you to become your vassal again.

    Is there anything which can improve the success chance in assasinations?
    What matters are the intrigue values of the Spymaster and your King compared to theirs.
    One road is to kill their spymaster and then the Duke...and his heir and his heir and all the bloody rest of the family...muhahaha...

    Try to avoid badboy by grabbing land and titles, but simply revassalise them. Or lets say 50/50.
    That way you get a bigger demesne and reduce your badboy points. Keep it even to reduce revoltrisk and stability loss.
    But take all titles of direct rivals and the ones who are opposing your traits (say -5 and higher) as they will definitely fight you again soon.
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  9. #9
    Good advice here. I also like to progress slowly.

    I often pick a country with a good amount of courtiers, like Limousin to quickly build a vast dynasty. Then I wait for the first opportunity to strike the closest heathen country. It usually happens when their troops are away at war with another country. When there's a powerful liege to back me up, I don't hesitate to declare war. It's very important to get a few county quickly or you lose precious years waiting for gold. Also make sure to aim for a Duchy and a Kingdom to increase your desmesne maximum size and to get vassals.

    I like Bishops for the Piety bonus and increased loyalty so I always choose ecclesiastical education for males and for females to mary those that do not belong to my dynasty.

    Church Supremacy is the best law to get more stability. You can then use this stability to get huge amounts of gold. Stability can only be acquired when at peace so I usually build up some stability before going to war.

    I like to conquer the richest country like Venice, Genoa, Alexandria. Since grabbing titles is expensive in Prestige I make sure I control the Pope to excommunicate if needed.

  10. #10
    Thank you again. I would like to correct my earlier post and ask another question. The last time I wrote, I was actually still fighting the war upon Northumberland, and had just taken out Northhampton. I am now at peace with a tarnished reputation (after giving away fiefs to increase efficiency), and a debt of about -144 gold. Is there a way to make my reputation recover more quickly?
    Last edited by Klein001; 14-02-2012 at 21:19. Reason: spelling correction
    1.If you are up real late, and you find yourself getting mad and you know your brain is not working, get off the computer before you mess up!
    2.good manners go far. they really do.
    3.don't hijack threads, it's not fun for other people if and when threads are closed, so don't do it or allow it.
    Don't repeat these silly mistakes I made! That is the purpose of my putting them here.

  11. #11
    Colonel Diet of Worms's Avatar
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    Your reputation recovers faster if you have high piety. Also granting titles gets rid of some. And dropping a claim in a peace negotiation gets rid of more - so if a vassal rebels, granting you a claim on his title, you beat him and revassalise him but give up the claim you just got on his title at the same time; you're back to the status quo and you get a reputation improvement.

  12. #12
    Thank you sir . I am currently in debt by 102 coins, and the count of Kent (got to love that consonance) is loosing loyalty at 3% per month, and is currently below 50%. Early on in my cheating days, I was quite irked when a vassal just 'liberated' themselves from me and pledged allegiance to another lord. With the duke of lancaster's little shindig (independence) going on, am I taking too much of a risk by waiting for my debt to go down? Or is bribery the better option. My difficulty setting is 'very easy' (why bother with trying my patience?) and the ai agressiveness is 'weakling' (something has got to happen in game).

    EDIT: I'm considering giving away a bishiphoric to increase my piety and decrease my reputation. The county I'm looking at is that of Chester (should these placenames be capitalized?), which shares part of it's border with Lancaster. I'm hoping that despite the low difficulty settings, Lancaster might decide to go for the person's title, initiating a war which I can be called to join, thusly reducing the cost of just declaring war myself. My reputation as per the respective screen, is 'tarnished', so I hope to avoid too great an additional cost.
    Last edited by Klein001; 21-01-2012 at 18:48.
    1.If you are up real late, and you find yourself getting mad and you know your brain is not working, get off the computer before you mess up!
    2.good manners go far. they really do.
    3.don't hijack threads, it's not fun for other people if and when threads are closed, so don't do it or allow it.
    Don't repeat these silly mistakes I made! That is the purpose of my putting them here.

  13. #13
    Colonel Diet of Worms's Avatar
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    Not much point in bribing someone who is losing loyalty that fast - it's more a technique to deal with vassals who are gaining loyalty but are currently at a low loyalty - eg after a new king takes over.

    The count of Kent will rebel at some point, then you crush him and either revassalise while conceding the claim or (since he doesn't seem to like you ) just take his county away. If you want to finesse it though, and if you own the duke of Canterbury title, grant the duke title to another one of your vassal counts (for neatness you probably want it to one of the counts in that duchy, but it doesn't have to be) doing that will make all counts within de jure Canterbury swear to their duke, rather than directly to you. The count of Kent becomes someone else's problem at that point...

    If you ever get in real trouble with a large kingdom however, don't worry about just white peacing out and letting them go. You'll keep a claim on their title which you can reassert once things calm down.

    Regarding Chester, if Lancaster has a claim to the county of Chester then that might work, if they don't then it will only happen if they get an event giving them a claim, or decide to grab it - possible, but a very long shot. Granting bishoprics for piety is a good idea though, just try to avoid doing it with a king who is near the end of his life - piety is tied to character, and will die with your king.

    As far as difficulty settings go, coward AIs are actually what is generally recommended - anything higher and AI kingdoms tend to fall apart in civil war far too often. Very easy will reduce the prestige cost in grabbing titles, and maybe a few other things as well. For the sort of game your playing I doubt it makes very much difference to the level of challenge you face

  14. #14
    Thank you again, for your advice . I granted a courtier the bishiphoric of chester, but soon after, the duke of York, who joined Kent in his growing displeasure of me (the list included 5-6 vassals at it's max, but it's down to something like 4, with the highest loyalty level being less than 30%. I managed to get a peace settlement with york allowing him to be my vassal, while dropping the claims I had against him. My rep went to 'slightly tarnished', so I decided to make war on Lancaster (I still had the claims). With him, I had to conquer his main province, yet I did the same thing, letting him go as my vassal (the claims that is). My rep is now at 'respectable', yet after all that warmongering (making?) I've got a debt of 668 coins. I don't think I will be making war for a while. Thank you all for the advice again, as my game is progressing quite swimmingly (I lol to myself at what should be a rather old word).
    1.If you are up real late, and you find yourself getting mad and you know your brain is not working, get off the computer before you mess up!
    2.good manners go far. they really do.
    3.don't hijack threads, it's not fun for other people if and when threads are closed, so don't do it or allow it.
    Don't repeat these silly mistakes I made! That is the purpose of my putting them here.

  15. #15
    Another update, I'm doing well at reorganizing my realm (down to about 14 vassals from 18-20), building up my provinces, and doing other things. My income, due to my intrigue losses, is now down to 34 coins/month from 40-41 coins per month. Is there any easy way of getting back some of that lost income without pillaging my provinces?
    1.If you are up real late, and you find yourself getting mad and you know your brain is not working, get off the computer before you mess up!
    2.good manners go far. they really do.
    3.don't hijack threads, it's not fun for other people if and when threads are closed, so don't do it or allow it.
    Don't repeat these silly mistakes I made! That is the purpose of my putting them here.

  16. #16
    Field Marshal jwolf's Avatar
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    You can increase your scutage if you want. You'll get more money from your vassals, but their army size will go down and also they will be more unhappy with you. I know I always hate it when my liege does that to me.

    Quite honestly your drop in income is not really bad. I don't think there is any need to take drastic action. Sometimes your ruler just isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, and you have to live with that for a while. When I play it seems like my good rulers die young and the dumb as a box of rocks guys reign 50 years. That's just the way it goes sometimes.

  17. #17
    Update: So far, so good. I've taken the duchies of Deheubarth and Gwynnedd (I think that is how it is spelled). My income, though tenuous, is currently at ~35 gold/month. The kingdom of Germany has long been my ally, yet I have only answered 3-4 of his many calls for help in reigining in his vassals. He seems to be undecided as to whether he wants to fall apart, his capital province has been taken (last time I checked), yet he keeps fighting. My question, however, pertains to my vassals. I've noticed that 2 of my vassals, including the current Duke of Northumberland, have the 'rebellious' trait, which they acquired quite some time ago. I know that they can get rid of this trait. What are the conditions for them getting rid of the trait, and is there anything I can do to help the process along?

    Edit: due my acquiring some good traits for my character, as well as dropping some of his bad traits, his intrigue is now down to 2 points. Is this bad and if so, is there anything I can do to raise it?
    1.If you are up real late, and you find yourself getting mad and you know your brain is not working, get off the computer before you mess up!
    2.good manners go far. they really do.
    3.don't hijack threads, it's not fun for other people if and when threads are closed, so don't do it or allow it.
    Don't repeat these silly mistakes I made! That is the purpose of my putting them here.

  18. #18
    General Grumpalodian Aardvark Bellay's Avatar
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    Loosing Rebellious trait: Stability +1 and better, Loyalty of vassal at least 0.8, make him your friend
    close to no chance if: rival, primary heir

    general tip: use notepad++(its free), use the search function, search in files crusader kings/db/events for "rebellious",
    shows all lines in files with this word, look out for "action= remove rebellious"
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  19. #19
    Field Marshal jwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klein001 View Post
    Edit: due my acquiring some good traits for my character, as well as dropping some of his bad traits, his intrigue is now down to 2 points. Is this bad and if so, is there anything I can do to raise it?
    You can't raise it again except by changing traits during random events. With that very low intrigue, you have two problems:

    1. Greater vulnerability to assassinations, unless you have a super good spymaster to cover your back.

    2. Very low personal demesne limit.

    There's not much you can do about those; just have to live with them.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by jwolf View Post
    There's not much you can do about those; just have to live with them.
    And so far, live with it I have. Intrigue is up to 3 points, but now, I need advice again.
    Germany is falling apart like nobody's business, and it looks like france is starting to go for the fragments, with all of England, none of Scotland, and nearly 2/3 of Ireland (plus Normandy), am I in any position to say, take on france, or maybe go for some german land?
    1.If you are up real late, and you find yourself getting mad and you know your brain is not working, get off the computer before you mess up!
    2.good manners go far. they really do.
    3.don't hijack threads, it's not fun for other people if and when threads are closed, so don't do it or allow it.
    Don't repeat these silly mistakes I made! That is the purpose of my putting them here.

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