Werewolf Lite CCXXIV: God Amongst the Ashes

[the_hdk]

we did have a dune themed light game.

it was fun. i was a harkonen infiltrator i believe.

IN.

yes we did have, as said before it was me who GMed that one
link

not that we cant have another one

[Capt. Kiwi]

In

What are the rules for seer? Scan once every night? If you're going no PMs, that would be adviseable.

Also, you'd have to decide what PMs the wolves can send. I'd advise name of hunt target only, though they can change the size/underline etc if they want to emphasise the point.

Whats up with the morning deadlines all the time?

In, will think of a role later.

The Aussies have GMd the last three. It's probably just as well I chose a deadline that was morning my time for CCXX.

[randakar]

In.

Also, I'd like to ask if people want the no-PM's rule put into this game, or not?

No, not really.

If you want to take a page from the Mafia playbook, do it proper:
- Don't reveal peoples exact roles when they die, just allegiance (wolf/nonwolf, so no information about the death of the seer)
- Don't allow the Seer to reveal either himself, or the results of his scans.
- Allow ghosts to keep talking after their deaths, but not send in votes or orders;
- Dead people win the game when their side wins the game.

*That* is a ruleset I find interesting.

[Kingepyon]

In

And I wouldn't mind giving Randy's idea a shot.

[Capt. Kiwi]

It's pretty much what Pevergreen proposed for Big. I wonder if Lite, with players that tend to be more active, might be a better place to give it a first shot?

[Taiisatai64]

I'll give the rules a shot, but if I start losing players because of this, I will revert it. Also, if the game is an abysmal failure, it was not my fault as Game Moderater.

The rule changes will be as follows:

1. Deaths will only reveal allegiance, as suggested. The effect this will have over the game should be minimal, as it is a Lite, BUT it means that the village and wolves may continue to think the Seer is still alive after he is dead.

2. The Seer may not reveal himself or his scan results directly. This means no outings, but every piece of analysis could be the Seer trying to get the wolf he's scanned lynched.

3. Ghosts can talk after death, and they will "win" if their side wins.

4. PM's are allowed between players and the Game Moderater. Players may not PM other players. The wolves are allowed to contain a small message (less than 20 words) in the hunt order, meaning that a small amount of communication can be achieved, but the Fleet's communication equipment is not capable of sending more than three hunt orders of this size per day. Pure hunt orders, with no other text, can be sent an unlimited number of times.

Thoughts?

[Capt. Kiwi]

3. Ghosts cannot talk after death, but they will "win" if their side wins.

Not sure about this one. The biggest advantage of allowing ghosts to talk is it stops the wolves from simply killing off the best villagers, which with no JL at all might be necessary for balance. As for the dead winning, I saw that more as an extension of the idea the dead are still in it.

As for the wolves, my preferred option was unlimited hunt orders but limited to target only, but others may differ.

[randakar]

There shouldn't be a need to have rule 4, given that you already have rule 1, 2, and 3. At best I'd require people to put the GM in the recipient list *as well* when sending messages about the game to other players.
I will go along with it for the sake of testing this though, since you seem to insist on not allowing PM's

[randakar]

Not sure about this one. The biggest advantage of allowing ghosts to talk is it stops the wolves from simply killing off the best villagers, which with no JL at all might be necessary for balance. As for the dead winning, I saw that more as an extension of the idea the dead are still in it.

That's basically the point, yes. And I see Tai has edited that rule since what you quote is completely different from what it says right now.

As for the wolves, my preferred option was unlimited hunt orders but limited to target only, but others may differ.

Wolves should be able to discuss strategy. They are the "knowledgeable few" that plot against the others. I don't see a good reason to stop them from talking to each other.

[reis91]

Looks good. I would also insert a rule to make it clear that the Wrath of God will descend upon the zombies. Or maybe just do it anyway, no rules.

[Vainglory]

Ugh. No PM I was willing to try since people were discussing it in the last Big, but this sounds like utter shit. Nonetheless, I volunteer to eat shit with a spoon to test the idea.

[randakar]

Ugh. No PM I was willing to try since people were discussing it in the last Big, but this sounds like utter shit. Nonetheless, I volunteer to eat shit with a spoon to test the idea.

Well, let's agree to disagree a bit and decide how much excrement these rules really contain afterward, shall we?
Though honestly, if you are so sickened by this idea, maybe we should try the "no PM" rules first so that you'll be convinced that that is not the way to go about it *before* we try the mafia style rules

(I will play regardless, just to see how this thing will play out, so hey..)

[Taiisatai64]

The rules will be as above. I'll append them to the original post. The no-PM rule has been scrapped, as suggested.

[Vainglory]

Oh dear.

@ Randy

I shall hold you personally responsible for everything that goes wrong!

[randakar]

@ Randy

I shall hold you personally responsible for everything that goes wrong!

Of course

Honestly, Taiisatai64 doing this is a good thing. It saves me from attempting to run a game like this myself
At any rate, I have no idea what the full ramifications of this rule set will be either. I guess we'll have to figure it out as we go ..

[Capt. Kiwi]

Has somebody told Pevergreen about this game? It's more or less his ruleset now.

[Taiisatai64]

Has somebody told Pevergreen about this game? It's more or less his ruleset now.

I asked him today, he said no. I don't think he trusts my abilities as a host.

[Falc]

I'm not exactly sure about this... Is the Seer still allowed to contact the people he's scanned through PM? Because if not, I'm a bit worried about the whole point of even having a Seer. What if the Seer finds a wolf but it's a well-hidden one? Whose public behaviour is far from obvious? What on earth can you do except start dropping subtle hints?

And perhaps most of all, where do you draw the line? Assume we have a Seer who's scanned me as a wolf. Which of the following would you allow him to say in public:

"I think Falc is a wolf."
"I believe Falc is a wolf.
"I'm convinced Falc is a wolf."
"I know Falc is a wolf."
"I think Falc is a wolf *wink wink*"
"Falc is a likely wolf."
"Falc is certainly a wolf."
"Falc is absolutely a wolf (in my opinion)."

No matter where you draw the line, the Seer is very likely to cross it at some point because the line will remain vague. So, final question: how will you, as a GM, respond to that?

[Taiisatai64]

The seer may not reveal his role or scan results in any way. He may not PM his people he has scanned, because that would reveal his role and a scan result.

He can say any of the things you suggested, but as he will not have the backing of a JL, will not be able to put the thing in capital, upsized letters, and will not have a JL spokesman, any Seer who does that will likely die, or not be believed. Also, as there is no "this guy is a Seer" announcement on lynching, even if you lynch the seer instead, noone will know whether he was just a villager, or the Seer. There is also nothing stopping a wolf from impersonating a Seer by trying to be an "obvious Seer" and outing someone. It adds a whole other layer of strategy onto the game, in other words; wolves have to figure out which of the guys putting forward analysis is the Seer; the village has to wonder whether the guy who appears to be a Seer is a wolf; stuff like that.

And please, lets not discuss gimmicky tactics that break the whole spirit of the game. I can't think of any just yet, but I'm sure someone will.

[Capt. Kiwi]

In public it shouldn't matter, as if the seer wants to get hunted and thus lose future scans that's their problem. It's in PMs that it matters.