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Thread: לאחר נפילת קרתגו (after Carthage's fall)

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    Restricted access until e-mail confirmed Qsdd's Avatar
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    לאחר נפילת קרתגו (after Carthage's fall)

    EDIT: Could a moderator please lock this topic? I have stopped working on the mod.

    Carthage mod is based on Death and Taxes, many thanks to lukew for granting me permission.

    This mod is based on the following timeline (which will change a lot):

    Carthage victors over Rome in Second Punic War
    Carthage gains entire sicily and parts of south and north italy.
    Third Punic War ends in another sucess on the carthagian side, annexing the entire Italian Peninsulia.
    Greece, Macedon and Egypt goes to war with Carthage trying to stop Carthigian domination of the Mediterranean
    The war ends in Carthage taking minor consessions from Egypt and total annexation of Greece, plus gaining Tribute from the macedons
    Carthage spends 50 years (waiting to core, lol) recovering from the wars.
    Carthage goes on to taking Iberia, Southern France and the rest of the Western Balkans.
    Since Carthage has taken the the most important civilizations in the Mediterranean (spare egypt) It goes deeper into Tunisia, Morroco and Algiers.
    Egypt makes a final try against Carthage, but ends in total annexation of Egypt.
    Judea is under Carthage, meaning the jews have new opressors. The jews revolt the instant egypt is annexed and Carthage wins a very close battle.
    The Seleucids attack Carthage, winning at first, but loses Anatolia and the way up. Seleucids rebase in Persia.
    Now that Carthage controls the whole mediterranian they seek to the north, France is captured.
    Elephants adapt to the new territory and the very first elephant farm in Italy is made.
    Revolts start across the country and Carthage is in civil war.
    Khilletzbaal emerges from the civil war declaring an empire.
    Khilletzbaal invades Persia, The British Islands, and Germany.
    Georgia and Crimea falls too.
    Carthage (the city) has reached 100.000 citizens since Carthage has claimed it to be the center of the world
    The rest of the empire finally accepts the rule of Carthage, but the Germanic states revolt.
    Carthage lost Germany, the fall of the empire has begun.
    The British Islands revolt, another loss.
    The British invades France.
    The germanics invade Italy.
    Crimea revolts taking Georgia and Anatolia
    The jews take over Jerusalem to Egypt.
    The rest of the world revolts ending in Carthage only being in Tunisia.

    The Tunisians want the republic system back, Carthage has ended.
    The phonecian religion exists over the entire mediterranean, expect Jerusalem.

    Text marked in italic is prior to change since I don't like it.

    The mod is in VERY early alpha, theres only one tag.

    Changelog:
    Yet to come

    Download link:
    Yet to come

    Pictures:
    Yet to come (what did you expect?)
    Last edited by Qsdd; 06-03-2012 at 18:56.

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    Restricted access until e-mail confirmed Qsdd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanOmer View Post
    Nice alternate history scenario.
    Will the beginning year be 1399?
    Nope, I would have to do a lot more history research. I'm not so sure about when it should start. I thought of 530 - 950 AD. Maybe earlier, maybe later. Also would it be possible for Islam to appear without Christianity? (there will be no Christianity in this, since the Jews were oppressed by the Carthaginians instead of Romans, meaning Jesus probably got sacrificed as a child)

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    The Article Beggar Derahan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qsdd View Post
    Nope, I would have to do a lot more history research. I'm not so sure about when it should start. I thought of 530 - 950 AD. Maybe earlier, maybe later. Also would it be possible for Islam to appear without Christianity? (there will be no Christianity in this, since the Jews were oppressed by the Carthaginians instead of Romans, meaning Jesus probably got sacrificed as a child)
    It's your alterante history so you decided what is going to happen, if you dont want islam then dont do islam

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    Restricted access until e-mail confirmed Qsdd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derahan View Post
    It's your alterante history so you decided what is going to happen, if you dont want islam then dont do islam
    Yes that's very true, but i want to make it as plausible as possible (i know that it wasn't very plausible for Carthage to win over Rome in the Second Punic War because Italy had way more resources, but still). People don't like alternate histories where Mazovia conquers the world in a year .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qsdd View Post
    Nope, I would have to do a lot more history research. I'm not so sure about when it should start. I thought of 530 - 950 AD. Maybe earlier, maybe later. Also would it be possible for Islam to appear without Christianity? (there will be no Christianity in this, since the Jews were oppressed by the Carthaginians instead of Romans, meaning Jesus probably got sacrificed as a child)
    I kind of doubt that it would be the Islam as we know it, but since the related decisions in game are kind of generic anyway if you think about it, I think you can just leave it as it is.

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    Field Marshal videonfan's Avatar
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    If islam exists it should have different modifiers or be a polytheistic religion because mainly it is oriented around the 2 monotheistic religions before it (chiristianity-judaism)
    [22:23:51] <Groogy> Mathrim, give it to me gently
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    The Article Beggar Derahan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by videonfan View Post
    If islam exists it should have different modifiers or be a polytheistic religion because mainly it is oriented around the 2 monotheistic religions before it (chiristianity-judaism)
    But Judaism should theoretically still be in the game right?

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    Field Marshal videonfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derahan View Post
    But Judaism should theoretically still be in the game right?
    Well yes but only really restricted since the cathrigians sacrificed jews in this scenario right?
    [22:23:51] <Groogy> Mathrim, give it to me gently
    What Crusader Kings 2 makes you say:
    [19:23:43] <Duke> I just need my damn wife to die
    [19:23:48] <Duke> Then I can invade and take their shit

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    Restricted access until e-mail confirmed Qsdd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derahan View Post
    But Judaism should theoretically still be in the game right?
    Judaism isn't in the base game but it will be in this mod, I'm planning on making a (INSERT GOVERNMENT TYPE HERE) of Judea (the insert... is because i don't know if it should be a republic or a monarchy, yet). So you can play as them and convert the entirety of Europe to Judaism, and maybe asia too (revenge for all the horrible things done to jews). Also a little thing, to prevent the countries from colonizing the Americas (and keep down the lag) I'm gonna remove the continent entirely.

    @videofan Well in the later times of Carthage, they sacrificed the poor children and Jesus (according to the bible) was poor, so it would make sense Jesus was sacrificed.

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    Field Marshal videonfan's Avatar
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    Theocracy would fit a judaic state with the headmaster of their state called "Rabbin" or maybe "Grand Rabbin"But if you want to go much before than when i am talking about you can divide them between 12(or 7 were they?) tribes
    [22:23:51] <Groogy> Mathrim, give it to me gently
    What Crusader Kings 2 makes you say:
    [19:23:43] <Duke> I just need my damn wife to die
    [19:23:48] <Duke> Then I can invade and take their shit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qsdd View Post
    Judaism isn't in the base game but it will be in this mod, I'm planning on making a (INSERT GOVERNMENT TYPE HERE) of Judea (the insert... is because i don't know if it should be a republic or a monarchy, yet). So you can play as them and convert the entirety of Europe to Judaism, and maybe asia too (revenge for all the horrible things done to jews). Also a little thing, to prevent the countries from colonizing the Americas (and keep down the lag) I'm gonna remove the continent entirely.

    @videofan Well in the later times of Carthage, they sacrificed the poor children and Jesus (according to the bible) was poor, so it would make sense Jesus was sacrificed.
    Judea would be a monarchy, it was almost always so.

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    Field Marshal videonfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bear_Sheba View Post
    Judea would be a monarchy, it was almost always so.
    Before the monarchy it had been a theocracy and before a theocracy a union of tribes i think
    [22:23:51] <Groogy> Mathrim, give it to me gently
    What Crusader Kings 2 makes you say:
    [19:23:43] <Duke> I just need my damn wife to die
    [19:23:48] <Duke> Then I can invade and take their shit

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    Restricted access until e-mail confirmed Qsdd's Avatar
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    o9dUrqsBWOOgALrkPdyUdASQU.jpg

    Here is a map of what i have done, currently not much other than remove a lot of province-owners. I did it all manually until i found a way to delete all contents of the death and taxes province files and did so(i didnt delete all the files i had already managed though, ill get to that too). I also added ICS (Italian Carthage Succession Society, silly name i know) in Rome. Also i haven't touched the start date and end date either. Sorry for the late reply, i was working on this.

    Edit1: My image got deleted from tinypic, sorry about that, i will try and upload it to some other site.
    Edit2: Should work now, hopefully.
    Last edited by Qsdd; 27-01-2012 at 17:21.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qsdd View Post
    Nope, I would have to do a lot more history research. I'm not so sure about when it should start. I thought of 530 - 950 AD. Maybe earlier, maybe later. Also would it be possible for Islam to appear without Christianity? (there will be no Christianity in this, since the Jews were oppressed by the Carthaginians instead of Romans, meaning Jesus probably got sacrificed as a child)

    It is not very likely that they would have sacrificed every child of an entire population, is it?

    I bet the probability of Jesus having survived childhood is quite in his favour.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKronblad View Post
    It is not very likely that they would have sacrificed every child of an entire population, is it?

    I bet the probability of Jesus having survived childhood is quite in his favour.
    That of course is true, but in late Carthaginian history they sacrificed the poor children (according to the bible Jesus was pretty poor). It is hard to determine the probability of him being sacrificed since we wouldn't know where the Carthaginians would take the children from. My guess is Judea since they were pretty violent, which would make it beneficial to take their children, ruining chances of more violent Jews. But of course there is a chance he would have survived, but even then there is a small chance he would organize a religion. The Jews could probably accept him, but i doubt the Carthaginians would since they (as far as I know) didn't have the whole son of the gods thing going on.Anyway no matter the probabilities Christianity will not exist in this mod.

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    Field Marshal videonfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qsdd View Post
    That of course is true, but in late Carthaginian history they sacrificed the poor children (according to the bible Jesus was pretty poor). It is hard to determine the probability of him being sacrificed since we wouldn't know where the Carthaginians would take the children from. My guess is Judea since they were pretty violent, which would make it beneficial to take their children, ruining chances of more violent Jews. But of course there is a chance he would have survived, but even then there is a small chance he would organize a religion. The Jews could probably accept him, but i doubt the Carthaginians would since they (as far as I know) didn't have the whole son of the gods thing going on.Anyway no matter the probabilities Christianity will not exist in this mod.
    What about an event called "Messiah born" in which christianity spreads?
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by videonfan View Post
    What about an event called "Messiah born" in which christianity spreads?
    Wouldn't it be "Messiah dies"?

  19. #19
    In the timeline you're looking at, Jesus would not have existed at the time, but it's your alternate history, not ours.

    Perhaps there could be a main event for Carthage relatively early in the game about a recently self-proclaimed prophet to Baal (the primary Carthaginian god, if my recollections are true), and you can either express distaste towards their movement and try to suppress it, exile him, extinguish it, or let it be free, and that would affect whether or not it becomes its own sect of the religion (i.e Protestantism), creates religious confusion leading to Atheism or similar, enhances distrust of the government, or some events of that ilk, and if they exile him, a random nearby country could have an event to accept him or send him on his way.

    Just my two cents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qsdd View Post


    Here is a map of what i have done, currently not much other than remove a lot of province-owners. I did it all manually until i found a way to delete all contents of the death and taxes province files and did so(i didnt delete all the files i had already managed though, ill get to that too). I also added ICS (Italian Carthage Succession Society, silly name i know) in Rome. Also i haven't touched the start date and end date either. Sorry for the late reply, i was working on this.
    Are you using a Scenario Editor?

    http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...Testers-Wanted

    Very easy to use.

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