Werewolf CXX - Shipwrecked

[Capt. Kiwi]

When does "Cloak of Invisibility" send in orders? If I sent them in on, say, day one what day would I be protected from lynching?

[reis91]

Mmm, Johho, you didn't exactly fix the apprentice steals like I asked, so the problem of EURO's game still applies. If you don't want to limit steals to 1 per apprentice, at least make it so that he cannot be stolen back by the person/role to which he was apprentice.

A doctor can never protect himself but has a 33% chance of saving himself in case of an attack.

Remove the 33% chance of surviving, please, it's ridiculous. Baddies must be given the opportunity to hunt the doctor without risking backfiring to defend themselves against patient outings.

The lover is as broken as always, imo. I would suggest making hunts targeted on lovers who are out trigger in the next night (ie, the wolves, not finding him there, decide to boobytrap his bed).

Cloak of Invisibility: A player possesing a cloak of invisibilty may once during the cause of the game become invisible, ie scans of him that night will return "nobody at home", wolf attacks will fail as if the player was GA protected, hunter hunts will miss, witnesses will fail to identify him and the player will even dodge the lynch mob making the runner up lynched instead of him etc.

Great, WW was just needing some hardcore cheats...

[OrangeYoshi]

Remove the 33% chance of surviving, please, it's ridiculous. Baddies must be given the opportunity to hunt the doctor without risking backfiring to defend themselves against patient outings.

No it's not, and they already do.

Stop messing with Johho's rules. He knows what he's doing.

[Capt. Kiwi]

Mmm, Johho, you didn't exactly fix the apprentice steals like I asked, so the problem of EURO's game still applies. If you don't want to limit steals to 1 per apprentice, at least make it so that he cannot be stolen back by the person/role to which he was apprentice.

An apprentice can only get stolen once from one master.

What's the problem? One steal is exactly what's there already.

[Capt. Kiwi]

No it's not, and they already do.

Stop messing with Johho's rules. He knows what he's doing.

The game I GMd not long after Johho's last showed the problem with self protecting Doctors. It really is better without it.

[OrangeYoshi]

The game I GMd not long after Johho's last showed the problem with self protecting Doctors. It really is better without it.

And there are examples where self protecting doctors are good for the game. You can't use a single instance to change something like that.

[Capt. Kiwi]

And there are examples where self protecting doctors are good for the game. You can't use a single instance to change something like that.

Give an example of it working then. Because it was clear from my game that the self protection is just a way to punish wolves who do the exact right thing.

[reis91]

Give an example of it working then. Because it was clear from my game that the self protection is just a way to punish wolves who do the exact right thing.

This, pretty much this.

About the cloak of hacks, I suggest toning it down by making the player choose which benefit he wants to see applied (a player can use it to evade the lynch, but then he is vulnerable to hunts and scans, for example). It will still be powerful as hell, but it won't be a real I-Win power.

[OrangeYoshi]

Give an example of it working then. Because it was clear from my game that the self protection is just a way to punish wolves who do the exact right thing.

So that everyone isn't claiming to be a hunter? You have someone claiming to be a hunter and someone else claiming to be a doctor.

Johho's old games have some examples of the self-protecting doctor working, I believe. And I don't know how the "exact right thing" is randomly hunting someone.

[johho888]

When does "Cloak of Invisibility" send in orders? If I sent them in on, say, day one what day would I be protected from lynching?

If you send in order Day 1 then you'll be protected Day 1 and the following night, Night 1.

[johho888]

Mmm, Johho, you didn't exactly fix the apprentice steals like I asked, so the problem of EURO's game still applies. If you don't want to limit steals to 1 per apprentice, at least make it so that he cannot be stolen back by the person/role to which he was apprentice.

I think I just did that?

Remove the 33% chance of surviving, please, it's ridiculous. Baddies must be given the opportunity to hunt the doctor without risking backfiring to defend themselves against patient outings.

OK.

The lover is as broken as always, imo. I would suggest making hunts targeted on lovers who are out trigger in the next night (ie, the wolves, not finding him there, decide to boobytrap his bed).

No.

Great, WW was just needing some hardcore cheats...

I had this trait in a few games and the only use anyone had of it was to get out of lynch, much like the leader-saves-himself. The potential is there for other things but you need to be either very lucky or have infiltrated the other side to time it right.

[Lord_D]

I think I'm In.

The bizarre twist of uni-life is that I have way more time for these kinds of games during exams

[reis91]

I had this trait in a few games and the only use anyone had of it was to get out of lynch, much like the leader-saves-himself. The potential is there for other things but you need to be either very lucky or have infiltrated the other side to time it right.

Thing is, there is no way to counter that. you could go to great lengths to have a guy lynched, shot, etc and it will all be for naught. It's too powerful there's nothing the other side can do against you to stop you. All other traits can be stopped somehow, you can have hunters shooting brutals, manipulating the vote to prevent leader-lynches, etc.

[johho888]

Thing is, there is no way to counter that. you could go to great lengths to have a guy lynched, shot, etc and it will all be for naught. It's too powerful there's nothing the other side can do against you to stop you. All other traits can be stopped somehow, you can have hunters shooting brutals, manipulating the vote to prevent leader-lynches, etc.

It's just a one time thing though. Kill the invisible man the next day.

[Capt. Kiwi]

So that everyone isn't claiming to be a hunter? You have someone claiming to be a hunter and someone else claiming to be a doctor.

Johho's old games have some examples of the self-protecting doctor working, I believe. And I don't know how the "exact right thing" is randomly hunting someone.

I'm not sure what you're getting at with hunters, because that's another role where the self protection needed toning down, although probably not complete removal. Speaking of which:

Do hunters die if attacked, even if they succeed in killing one of the wolves? I hope so.

But as for doctors, think about the cost/benefit: If the doctor saves someone and the wolves don't hunt the doctor, the village gains from both the no hunt and the name revealed by the victim - double bonus. If the doctor saves someone, but the wolves successfully hunt the doctor+patient, it's net neutral. Two villagers are dead, just as would have happened with no doctor. If the doctor+patient is unsuccessfully hunted because the doctor makes their save, the village gets two no hunts plus two wolf names. Ouch. There's no way for the wolves to come out any better than neutral, which is not a problem in itself, but even if the wolves use all their guile to deduce the doctor it's complete luck whether they succeed, or fail twice as badly as they would otherwise.

[AOK. 11]

EURO and I are in.

Aren't we EURO?

[EUROO7]

EURO and I are in.

Aren't we EURO?

I am only in if AOK is in.

[jacob-Lundgren]

You are both in or I am out.

[AOK. 11]

Good. Then we are all in.

Now who else do we need to drag in?

[sbr]

I'll play if the n00bies stop bitching about the best WW GM's rules. Whatever rules johho wants to use are perfect and will work out perfectly.

In