And Sweden on that map... uh.. looks quite "fat" for a country which is mostly long North-to-South (But since this is a mod-within-a-mod that can't be helped, iI suppose).. >_>
On the topic of tribes, though.. how will Exploration be handled? Wouldn't want Egyptians forming the U.S.A. before the game's up, so how will you keep the continents separate (and will the New World be empty)?
Gouwu (勾吳): The wiki entry for Suzhou says the people around the area called themselves that. I'm not sure on what it actually means tbh.
Yuyue (於越 or 于越): The first character is just a grammar particle nowadays... "in" or "at." Yue is an interesting word, though. It's based off the "axe" pictogram, and from this time to maybe the Han dynasty it was a catch-all when building words for "barbarians in the south who aren't us." (Random tangent: You see this sort of thing a lot. A lot of ethnic minorities still had the "dog" radical in their names until the PRC's language reforms replaced these with the "human" radical. Compare the Mexica calling everyone around them "dog people.") Then as the line of "us" moved south, so did the term. Nowadays, "Yue" is the southern coast of China (but in most cases 粵, "breathe," is used instead) and the original 越 is used in Vietnam's name (Nanyue, "southern Yue" is where "Nam Viet" came from.) If I had to guess, I'd say the "yu" is meant to differentiate the people in the state of Yue from others further to the south also called (blank)-yue.
I don't know if you'd rather use the HRE system elsewhere since I'm ignorant of other regions that might make better use of it. Shogun might make more sense if there was some way to let the "daimyos" deal with non-daimyos normally. Zhou king at this point was closer to the Emperor of Japan before the restoration (powerless but generally respected) with a little dash of Pope throne in there ("The King named me ba [hegemon] so it's totes cool for me to attack you!") the latter of which could be represented by the shogun... But by the 400's or so no one really cared what the king said anymore, and it was just legitimately sovereign states fighting each other.
The HRE would need to be modded in some ways that might not be possible because it supposes the emperor is the strongest and gives him rights/powers that make sense given that. Shogunate would work better if there was a way to stop it from interfering with diplomacy and war outside the system. Tbh I dunno, and it might just be easier and better to leave it as-is and have everyone guarantee Zhou's independence so hopefully no one conquers them without a hell of a fight.
The Qin expanded to (very very) roughly the black immediately after, and within 100 years after that the Han expanded to roughly the blue (pink? I'm colorblind. ) I have no idea how to properly model this... no one's going to be expanding while the empire's up for grabs, but once China is stable, expansion in that direction should be relatively easy.
Edit: Idea. You could give the Chinese colonists only once they're the uncontested powerhouse (maybe once their neighbors are gone, vassals, or OPM/2PMs) and make Xinjiang and Mongolia uncolonizable. Historically the Qin/Han only expanded down there after your timeline, but an earlier unification should mean earlier expansion imo.
Actually, here's my suggestions, save you some legwork. The slash is just simplified/traditional. You always want to use whatever looks like the latter character, but some "old-looking" fonts will only take the simplified character but will spit out a traditional-looking one.
Wei: 魏 (But wiki sez 梁 is "Zhou Chinese" so that's probably more period-accurate... although in current usage it doesn't mean the state anymore.)
Last edited by bananafishtoday; 07-01-2012 at 17:53.
The Greek city states never managed to form large empires. The Athenian empire at its height would in the game not be more than a few provinces and a lot of vassals. That doesn’t mean it should be impossible to form a large empire from a Greek city state in the game of course, but it should not be possible for a Greek city state to directly control much territory during the first many centuries.
Brainstorm for buildings/provincial decisions:
Training fields (local_regiment_cost, local_manpower_modifier)
Permanent training camps (regiment_recruit_speed)
Central armoury and weapon deposit (local_manpower_modifier)
Acropolis/Capitol (defensiveness, less revolt risk)
Center of regional commerce
Trade district (only in very large cities or COTs)
Naval (also trade effects):
Port city (think Piraeus/Ostia)
“Centre of religion” (Temple in Jerusalem, Delphi etc. – perhaps designated by game start or by events)
Imperial burial complex (+prestige, only available to large states and only one pr. country)
Refined local goods
Community of artist
Refined foods and wines
A subject for a great poet would be God's boredom after the seventh day of creation.
- Friedrich Nietzsche
About the govt type: I agree that there should be a huge difference between playing Athens and Assyria; the branches idea therefore sounds good to me.
Actually, I have a feeling that it should in general be very hard to control large land areas, even when you're an ordinary Aristocratic Monarchy. You should be able to switch (via decision) to Empire if you have enough territory, armies and a good enough monarch, I'd say.
I just had this idea for that: nations with a good enough monarch (same "good enough" as before) can get a modifier "Imperial Ambitions," giving some bonuses (e.g. a CB that allows conquest for low infamy cost) and possibly some maluses (e.g. worse relations with neighbors). You can only get Imperial Ambitions if you are not an empire already and are a monarchy, so Greek city states can only get it if they happen to have a tyrant at the time. Now, if you happen to have enough provinces, a large enough army and (at the same time) have the modifier "Imperial Ambitions", the decision to become an empire becomes available. This should make it sufficiently hard I'd say.
There should be different forms of empires though. E.g. the Egyptian "deified emperor" concept, or the Persian "king of kings" concept, etc etc.
Last edited by Taylor; 07-01-2012 at 19:38.
660 B.C. marked the formation of the "Japanese" nation by the first Emperor, so that should be in game at least.
Maximilian von Wittelsbach, Stadtholder of Leipzig (formerly Otto von Bismarck) in Avindian's Sonderweg oder Anderweg Interactive AAR.
@HMAS-Nameless - I got an email that you tried to send me a message but that my Inbox is full. I've cleared some messages, so now I can receive your message . Btw your own Inbox is also full.
This looks promising, you've got some good ideas going here, and I'd love to contribute. I could probably help with base tax, trade goods and centres of trade.
I've got a couple of ideas for events/decisions aswell:
- It would be cool if China had some events flavored after The Art of War, (maybe only when at war,) and other ancient chinese poetry and literature, and the same in India with ancient sanskrit literature.
-Carthage itself should have some events or decisions that makes it grow to the biggest city in europe in terms of base tax towards the end of the game. (Only if the ruling country is phoenician.)
-and maybe a decision to create a COT in Iberia if it has enough cities there. This wouldn't really benefit carthage that much, and it will make Iberia more valuable to other countries, so the decision should give some other bonuses to carthage aswell.
Gojoseon (Korea) too.
Another nation that should be in is Tartessos, which was a rich and important trading city in this period.
- You're right. Carthage should also, as a nation, make a development towards more centralization somehow. Technically, in 650BC, Carthage was still just the most prominent of a number of Phoenician colonies.
- You're probably right... although I'm a bit worried about whether such a CoT will have a high enough value.
This looks like it's gonna be a great mod and I love the time period!
Will you rename the provinces and their capitals, or will that be too cumbersome?
I have got the Barrington atlas if you have any particular questions. it was very useful for me in my 399AD mod.
I was just thinking on the china, how bout when all those states has conquered eachother and formed their own empire, the HAN should be represented as a rebel faction that might revolt, just a thought so that the HAN empire might come into the game
Great mod though!
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