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Thread: Can we expect a performance increase for full game/later patches?

  1. #41
    Private Anon052's Avatar
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    I did send the email.

    I did what "Neocore_Kate" suggested, and couldn't help but notice that the game, when launched from the "AutoSetup"-program, defaulted me to run in "DX9"-mode, with some settings turned off, and several of the graphics-sliders not fully maxed-out, for some reason. Less than awesome.
    Exactly the same happend to me. But I found out that DX9 mode runs with 1-2 FPS less then DX11 mode. I think this changed from before.
    But still its no fun playing the game.

  2. #42
    running it in xp compatibility and as an administrator improved things for me, it's not greatly fluid, but it is at least playable.

  3. #43
    runs very fine for me even with high settings - i have the good old Windows XP

  4. #44
    I actually just registered onto this forum to see if I wasn't the only one with this problem, and it seems I'm not. Haven't tried the fix that someone has suggested yet (will try it when I get home), but I just want to throw my hat into the pile so that the developers take note of it and, hopefully, resolve this matter quickly.

    I'm running the game on an Intel i5 2500k with an Nvidia GTX 570 and 8GB RAM. Even on medium, I get shoddy performance, especially in battles. I was understanding since the game is running on a new engine and I'm loving what I've played of it so far, but don't see myself enjoying it as much as I'd like to if the performance doesn't keep up, especially once the battles reach a grander scale.

  5. #45
    Neocore Dev Neocore_Kate's Avatar
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    Hi everyone!

    I really felt I wanted to update this post, as I realized that it didn´t come across as intended.

    So first of all, I want to make this crystal clear - the entire development team is busy working on fixing performance issues that prevent playing the game on the required quality level…
    We absolutely take your comments and feedback regarding this issue very seriously!

    During development of King Arthur II our aim was to set the game to at least 24-30 FPS, as we felt a consistent 24+ FPS gives an acceptable baseline experience for an RTS.

    While we work on fixing all the issues which may ruin the fun in the game there are a couple of things you can do to improve the FPS rate in the game:

    As you all know, King Arthur II features a campaign view and a battle view. By changing the video settings you can improve both the battle and campaign view performance.
    In the main menu go to the options menu > video > advanced.
    Lower the sliders further to improve performance. Restart the game for changes to take effect.

    Uncheck the following options as they are the ones that require most CPU/GPU power:
    - Ambient Occlusion
    - Antialiasing
    - Motion Blur

    To further improve performance, uncheck additional video options (especially Vsync) or try lowering resolution. Restart the game for changes to take effect.

    Trust me when I say that our entire development team has lived, breathed and slept with King Arthur II for the past year/s and we love our games and will do everything we can to enhance it.
    Our ambition is that all you gamers out there should be able to play and enjoy the game as intended and we will definitely keep working towards that for as long as it is needed to you all to enjoy it!

    About the "24+ FPS is too low" and it is "bad performance" issue:
    It is not bad performance and not too low. If it gets below 20 FPS than it is bad performance. 24 FPS is what a human eye sees as fluid and you watch the films in the cinema with 24 FPS – do you go to cinema again and again to see bad performance and horribly low FPS?

    Where you need a higher FPS are mainly the action games, particularly if you play them in multiplayer.

    Generally our aim was to set the game to 24+FPS, of course after the graphical settings have been set to the specific hardware (this is what the Auto Setup does – it also recognizes other issues like driver problems and such, so if you think that the auto setup has set you lower results than your hardware would deserve, there are most likely some problems in your rig that you should find)

    About the "30 FPS cap" issue:

    Again, there is no FPS cap in the game on our test rigs in the developer office we can easily get around 50-60 fps both in battles and on the campaign map.

    However, Vsync can cause things like that. If you have problems with the FPS you should turn it off in the game and you have to make sure it is not forced by your graphics card driver. You can check it in the Catalyst Control Center (ATI/AMD) or the Nvidia Control Panel.

    Btw, the Ambient Occlusion option also lowers performance, so if you want to increase the FPS you get you might want to turn it off.

    About the Win 7 64bit comments:
    The first King Arthur game and the King's Crusade both used the same basic technology, there we had problems with how the 64 bit operating systems handled the memory and it caused crashes in those games.

    King Arthur II, on the contrary, is built on a completely new technology, basically it was written for Windows7 64bit systems, there is where it runs best. Both our studio and the hardware test lab have tested the game on plenty of Win7 64 bit systems, so it cannot be the cause of the problem for you guys.

    And our questions and answers to you one by one:

    Code:
    @alex0809
    
    Please let us know how many FPS you have exactly in the game.
    From your later posts it seems you have a constant 28-31 FPS – as I said above that is a normal performance in our opinion.
    
    If you want to increase FPS, run the game with the settings that Auto Setup sets for you, you can change back to your native resolution though, the remaining options are what really matter.
    Make sure you have Vsync turned off both in the game and in the Nvidia Control Panel as well (it can force it on the game even if you turn it off in the game menu).
    
    
    @Anon052
    
    Yes, 10-20 FPS is low. Is that what you get with using the settings Auto Setup set for you?
    If not, please let us know how many FPS you have with that.
    
    From your DxDiag we only see that you have a 6800 series graphics card – could you tell us exactly which card it is in the series?
    The performance you wrote down is bad anyway, so we'll try to find the solution.
    Only problem is that with our 6870 and 6850 cards the game runs well and we got a much better performance with those.
    
    
    @Nudz
    
    Your rig is a big monster :) On that the game should run like a charm.
    Could you tell us exactly how many FPS do you get in the game both with your preferable graphics settings and with the Auto Setup settings?
    For us the game runs well on weaker rigs (one 6970 card) with max settings.
    
    
    @Rastyl
    
    From what you said it seems the game runs on your rig with about 2-3 FPS. Is that correct?
    Could you let us know exactly how many FPS you get and exactly which graphics card you have?
    From the 5800 series we also have several cards, on most of them we tested the game in the hardware test lab but we didn't experience this problem.
    
    
    @derdree
    
    With your config 15-25 FPS is indeed bad performance.
    We had feedback on the Steam forums from Dungeoncrawler who also had similar problem with SLI and/or dual monitors: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=28317742&postcount=23
    
    Try what he says and make sure to turn Ambient Occlusion and Vsync off in the game menu and check the Nvidia Control Panel too. Let us know what happened.
    
    
    @acare84
    
    Could you tell us exactly how many FPS do you get in the game both with your preferable graphics settings and with the Auto Setup settings?
    We have tested King Arthur II on two very similar configs and on those the game runs well.
    We will try to find out what causes the issue, but as of now based on your DxDiag we cannot tell what it is.
    Try turning off Vsync and Ambient Occlusion in the game and don't forget to check the Nvidia Control Panel too.
    
    
    @thesword88
    
    Sometimes there are problems with SLI support in DX11 – we're looking for the cause of this and we'll fix it.
    In the meantime please try it under DX9, there the SLI should speed up the game.
    With a 470 card we get a constant 25-30 FPS with high settings, we hope that with DX9 your performance will be better.
    Hopefully in the next patch we will be able to fix this.
    
    
    @TheDeadeye
    
    With what settings do you have exactly what FPS? Please let us know.
    We received your email but we need to know more about the settings you use and the FPS you get.
    
    
    @Ryofu
    
    With what settings do you have exactly what FPS? You should have 24+ FPS with medium settings (based on your hardware).
    
    
    @Steelphoenix
    
    With what settings do you have exactly what FPS?
    You should be able to run King Arthur II with 24+ FPS on low settings (based on your hardware) and bearable performance on medium settings.
    
    
    @JamesX
    
    As I said above, Vsync can maximize the FPS to 30, if you turn that off you will probably have better performance.
    As we see it, a build that runs with 28-30 FPS doesn't need to be fixed, for an only single-player strategy game we never aimed to get a stable 60 FPS, instead we decided to concentrate on the graphics.
    
    
    @GADefence
    
    With what settings do you have exactly what FPS?
    
    The GPU usage stats are very interesting, with what or how did you measure that?
    On 4 core processors King Arthur II is heavily GPU limited, it indeed should load it to a higher extent.
    Could you share here your DxDiag using the code tag?
    
    
    @MatBerron92
    
    Try the run as admin fix and if it does not help do as suggested above: run KingArthurII_AutoSetup.exe and use the settings you get there.
    Make sure you turn off Vsync both in the game and in the Catalyst Control Center or the Nvidia Control Panel.
    You may also turn off Ambient Occlusion. And if you want further help, please share here your DxDiag using the code tag.
    
    Please also let us know about how many FPS you get exactly in the game with what settings.
    Thanks for all the DxDiags and FPS counts and the many info you shared with us, we really appreciate your help I do hope that together we can find a way to achieve what we both want desparately: happy players

    Cheers!
    Last edited by Neocore_Kate; 31-01-2012 at 20:50.

  6. #46
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    Lucky you, I can't even start the game. My dxdiag and crash reports were sent by email to KA2 team. I hope they will solve the issue.

    edit: I'm trying to play the game on a 17" 1600x900 Dell XPS L702x notebook, that has i7-2630QM CPU, 8192MB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce GT 555M with nVidia Optimus technology and 120GB OCZ-VERTEX3 SSD for system (Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit Service Pack 1) and 500GB HDD for games.

    edit2: Using hint from this thread I ran KingArthurII_AutoSetup.exe with Admin rights outside Steam and the game works! It seems it just can't be launched from Steam.
    Last edited by Dominik; 07-01-2012 at 20:20.
    ...

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by alex0809 View Post
    So we have 6 times performance issues and 6 times:

    Operating System: Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit (6.1, Build 7601) Service Pack 1 (7601.win7sp1_gdr.110622-1506)
    Quote Originally Posted by Nudz View Post
    That doesn't necessarily have to mean anything. Windows 7 64-bit is one of the most common systems people use, today.
    Perhaps the game would run best on a Mac?

    System Requirements
    OS: Windows XP with SP3, Windows Vista with SP2, Windows 7
    oops.... We may never know....

  8. #48
    @Neocore_Kate

    Thanks for the reply, will definitely try out your advice when I get home soon and update this post with my results. Been dying to get some more time with King Arthur II but stuck at work. Hope this fixes it!

    UPDATE: Finally got home and used "Run as Administrator" then pushed the graphics back up to max (minus Ambient Occlusion and Vertical Sync) for a test run and it was actually running like it should. I'm getting a good 35-40 FPS on the Campaign Map and during Battles the FPS drops not too far from the 20's when panning the camera around my army but reaches up to 60 when panning across the battlefield.

    Went ahead and checked the properties to always run as administrator. Thanks very much for your help!
    Last edited by MatBerron92; 07-01-2012 at 23:00.

  9. #49
    @Neocore_Kate First of all thank you.

    I tested all settings and here is the test results at 1920 x 1080 resolution.

    Maxed settings DX11 on campaign map 19 FPS
    Auto settings on campaign map 19 FPS
    Maxed settings DX11 on the battle 17 FPS
    Auto settings on the battle 18 FPS


    Also I tried lowest settings with DX9 too.

    Campaign map 23 FPS
    In the battle 24 FPS


    So results are not good. I hope you will do something about this, because game is really fun and I really like it. Thanks.
    Last edited by acare84; 07-01-2012 at 23:36.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Neocore_Kate View Post
    About the "24+ FPS is too low" and it is "bad performance" issue:
    It is not bad performance and not too low. If it gets below 20 FPS than it is bad performance. 24 FPS is what a human eye sees as fluid and you watch the films in the cinema with 24 FPS – do you go to cinema again and again to see bad performance and horribly low FPS?

    Where you need a higher FPS are mainly the action games, particularly if you play them in multiplayer.
    Firstly Kate, i'm sorry about my english. My english is very basic.

    Secondly, huge mistake from you when you say our brain can only see 24 FPS.
    In french, we call that Persistance rétinienne (Persistence of vision). Our eyes receive a luminous flux in continue, we detect our environment in the light more efficiently that in the dark. I'm not good enough to explain that in english but i can redirect you to one french article and one english website.

    http://www.nofrag.com/2003/nov/24/8629/

    http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frame...humans_see.htm

    We aren't neither in cinema nor in real life. It's an video game and it's a game engine which calculates frames ( but doesn't display them).
    So... We need the most frames as possible, to get a good fluidity.

  11. #51
    I think it has something to do with motion blur in movies which make it look like fluid to the human eye at 24fps. This isn't present in game.
    Here is a website showing the difference between 15-30-60 fps http://www.boallen.com/fps-compare.html we can clearly see that 60 fps is more fluid than the 30 fps one and 30 fps is probably more fluid than 24 fps too.

  12. #52
    Perhaps this has been asked/said and I just missed it but is there a recommended driver version? Or what nvidia drivers did neocore test the game on?

    Also thanks to kate for the answers to all of our questions thus far.

  13. #53
    First Lieutenant Baleur's Avatar
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    If i had 24fps i'd be happy. I'm getting extremely sluggish 8-12ish fps. Fun times.

    Win7 64bit SP1
    Core 2 Duo E6600
    Gainward 560TI
    6gb 1ghz ram

    I mean, how it can run even worse than Shogun 2 is an achievement imo. Graphics settings at all Very Low improves it by 2-3 fps, so i just left it at max for the heck of it (if it makes no difference, why not right?)
    I've noticed this in very few other games as well, where graphics settings have no effect on the framerate (very often in previous Total War games for instance). Sadly these kind of things never seem to be resolved, ever.
    If a games framerate can not be improved by lowering the graphics, it's pretty much byebye
    I had the same preformance issue in Heroes 6, in fact it feels very very similar in the sluggish-smooth-yet-low-fps respect. That game also never improved, regardless of putting everything on ultra low and zooming in to an empty patch of grassland.
    A shame too, it looks absolutely amazing in the gameplay department. Though i must say, having like 55 field of view in a STRATEGY GAME is absolutely appaling.. The battles look like you are watching through a spyglass.
    Last edited by Baleur; 08-01-2012 at 02:57.

  14. #54
    Tested with fraps on auto settings and on the first battle of the game.
    When the game is ran from steam i have 15-17 FPS on the campaign map and 8-10 in battles. This is unplayable.
    When the game is ran from steamapp/kingarthurii (in xp comp and with 'run as admin' enabled) i have 20 fps on the campaign map and 15-17 in battles. This is playable but not good.

  15. #55
    24 FPS is what a human eye sees...
    It's not quite that simple, Neocore_Kate.

    Your rig is a big monster On that the game should run like a charm.
    Could you tell us exactly how many FPS do you get in the game both with your preferable graphics settings and with the Auto Setup settings?
    I installed FRAPS, and ran a bunch of tests.


    When running on my preferable graphics-settings, (Direct X 11, all settings maxed-out.), I get the following FPS when not running in "Administrator":


    Campaign map: Varies between 12 to 7, the numbers jumping erratically.

    Battle map: Depends on what's currently shown on-screen. When the camera is aimed straight at the empty sky, the FPS stays relatively constant on around "23". During normal gameplay, however, with the camera showing the actual battle in progress, it generally stays somewhere below 12 FPS.


    Running in "Administrator":

    Campaign map: Mostly stays constant on around 15-13 FPS.

    Battle map: With the camera aimed at the empty sky, the FPS stays around "27". During normal gameplay, it mostly hangs around "14", or less.


    When running the game from "AutoSetup.exe", I get the following FPS:


    Campaign map: Varies between 20 to 18, the numbers jumping erratically.

    Battle map: With the camera pointed at the sky, the FPS stays around "27". During normal gameplay, it mostly stays below "17".


    For us the game runs well on weaker rigs (one 6970 card) with max settings.
    Exactly. The game runs better on certain weaker rigs than certain stronger ones. A good sign that the game is poorly optimized. We've had that happen a bunch of times by games released by small-ish, indie-ish studios. Red Orchestra 2 is a good example of this.

    Please fix your game.

    Please.
    Last edited by Nudz; 13-01-2012 at 23:14.

  16. #56
    First Lieutenant Baleur's Avatar
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    Indeed, please.. I hope it is a driver issue or some memory leak or w/e that can be quickly resolved.
    It would help immensely if the devs told us what drivers they used on their rigs, so we can try the same ones and see if results match.

  17. #57
    I mean seriously I've got an Intel i7 quad core,3GB GTX 580 graphics card,16GB RAM on windows 7 64bit OS and on all the different graphics options (from very low,to whatever the highest was AND turning off all the optional extras that your game says could cause slowdown) the battle starts to slow down,starts stuttering and then freezes up completely. I've had no other problems with 'large,flashy games',and I'm not gonna claim to be super knowledgeable about programming games,but with all these people having the same problem with what appear to be systems perfectly capeable of running this game,there seems to be something inherently wrong with this game somewhere.

  18. #58
    It reminds me of Red Orchestra 2, a mate and me we have 15 fps on ATI 5xxx and 6xxx series, while we can play any game on ultra without problem.
    On the other hand I have 60 fps with my GTX 560 Ti.

    Sometimes there are some computer issues that you can't guess.

    I hope I won't have any problem with KAII when I'll buy it.

  19. #59
    The odd part is that since I did the auto-start recommendation the game is running much slower. It may be because of the little patch came out last week. The game use to be 31fps, now it is 22. There is no change in configuration.

    Running as Admin doesn't change anything
    V-Sync off doesn't change anything
    Running as compatibility as WinXP service pact 3, makes the frame rate go 158 on the main menu (is 60 without it) but once it is in the actual game it is back to 22 fps.

    Not sure what is causing it.

    As for actual FPS the human eye is only about 30 fps, anything higher does not improve visualization that much. It only helps with control responsiveness but that is pretty moot in a game like KA2. I am happy with the 31 fps I had before, unfortunately now I am at 22.

  20. #60
    First Lieutenant Baleur's Avatar
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    Can we please stop discussing what the human eye can see?
    The human eye does not see things in "frames per second" anyway, nor does the eye actually see in frames anyway, it is all about how the BRAIN processes the information. The eye constantly recieves photons nonstop, obviously. At a "gazzillion fps" if you want to keep comparing it to a computer monitor even though the two are nothing alike.
    Furthermore, since we can tell when a game runs at 100fps or 50fps, pretty much blows the already incorrect theory out of the water. Unless you presume that it is all placebo, which it isnt.

    There's something wrong with how this game runs on a major number of setups, i'd like to know if the devs are in contact with nVidia / ATI to figure out a solution, and which drivers are recommended.
    End of discussion.

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