"Pecunia Infinita" — Mondays, 19:00 CET

[Histaxin]

Well as GB I used counterfeit currency on Italy a lot of times, if Italy gets reduction to inflation, then i also demand to lose all my infamy (since i was getting infamy from those spy missons), 1000 ducats(for the cost of the spies), back to 5 spies. I also demand inflation reduced back to 0 (because i only had to inflate because of Italy occupying me), and I demand my prestige back to 50% aswell because we both lost prestige together during the war so its fair that if edits are made, it should be for both nations.

Erm, you purposedly used counterfeit currency to damage an enemy nation that had your mainland fully occupied. I wont give you any edits for *stubbornness* or refusal to surrender. You couldve peaced out any time, afaik italys terms were by no means harsh or even damaging to you. Had you simply built units and occupied italys mainland, you couldve forcepeaced him as well.

Besides, your *inflation* is at 0.3 %.

[The-King]

Erm, you purposedly used counterfeit currency to damage an enemy nation that had your mainland fully occupied. I wont give you any edits for *stubbornness* or refusal to surrender. You couldve peaced out any time, afaik italys terms were by no means harsh or even damaging to you. Had you simply built units and occupied italys mainland, you couldve forcepeaced him as well.

Besides, your *inflation* is at 0.3 %.

Yeah I purposely used things at my disposal to fight against my opponent and weaken him during a state of war. I wasn't stubborn at all, neither of us had a decisive lead on the other as I was slowing driving up his inflation, letting Sicily and Malta revolt and fully blockading him. If Italy is eligible for edits, even though it was never under AI control, and those edits include things that Great Britain caused to Italy, and Great Britain suffered a price to inflict damage to Italy. How is it fair then that Italy get those things removed but Great Britain has to still pay the price? It's not fair at all.

[Histaxin]

Yeah I purposely used things at my disposal to fight against my opponent and weaken him during a state of war. I wasn't stubborn at all, neither of us had a decisive lead on the other as I was slowing driving up his inflation, letting Sicily and Malta revolt and fully blockading him. If Italy is eligible for edits, even though it was never under AI control, and those edits include things that Great Britain caused to Italy, and Great Britain suffered a price to inflict damage to Italy. How is it fair then that Italy get those things removed but Great Britain has to still pay the price? It's not fair at all.

Counterfeiting currency doesnt weaken a nation on the short-term. Its a long-term harrassment; if you want to ruin nations your at war with and they stay stubborn and dont peace out, thats your problem then.

And your still at war with him whatever i do. Additionally since i dont know if we even find a new italy perm, this discussion is kinda pointless until then. I have no problems discussing edits with a possible new italy perm and yourself later on.

[The-King]

Counterfeiting currency doesnt weaken a nation on the short-term. Its a long-term harrassment; if you want to ruin nations your at war with and they stay stubborn and dont peace out, thats your problem then.

And your still at war with him whatever i do. Additionally since i dont know if we even find a new italy perm, this discussion is kinda pointless until then.

He wasn't being stubborn either, neither of us were being stubborn because we both wanted to fight on. Also as long as I get my edits(only if Italy gets his edits) then I'll be fine with still being in a state of war.

[Histaxin]

King, your mainland including your cap is fully occupied. You lost 5k income until now to an enemy who doesnt care about incomeloss. Italy only demanded release of vassals in SEA; just give them to him, protect your seashores better and take them from him in the next war?

Ofc he wouldnt peace out right now, since hes alrdy won the war, but your 2 stubborn to realize it. Italy could just stay at war with you for years on end, since he has to; otherwise hed lose everything else worthwhile like e.g. sicily.

[The-King]

King, your mainland including your cap is fully occupied. You lost 5k income until now to an enemy who doesnt care about incomeloss. Italy only demanded release of vassals in SEA; just give them to him, protect your seashores better and take them from him in the next war?

Ofc he wouldnt peace out right now, since hes alrdy won the war, but your 2 stubborn to realize it. Italy could just stay at war with you for years on end, since he has to; otherwise hed lose everything else worthwhile like e.g. sicily.

If he has won the war, don't give anyone edits then, he should be fine and I'll just continue what I'm doing.

[KneeHi]

My 2 cents is... if the war is not seen as even, then currently GB has a clear advantage. Sicily is in imminent danger of cedeing as a sovereign state. Not to mention the island off the coast of spain already cede'd to spain.

If Italy gets edited, the war should end and king should get MINOR edits. But not as much as he is asking for.

[Histaxin]

Okay, so far ive given OE some edits @ quite a few random mags and a slider move @ cent, integrated syria, changed persias gov to tribal federation to make it assaultable for OE, so its a bit more playable now.

About Italy, well sell once/if we find a perm and then discuss the subject further.

[Pewt]

Persia is supposed to be a theocracy; that isn't a bug or an oddity.

[KneeHi]

Change it back to theocracy...

[Histaxin]

Change it back to theocracy...

But its *also* supposed to be a shiite theocracy. Any complaints there?

And what its supposed to be compared to what is mostly is, is different. Im some games persia is a steppe horde etc..

[KneeHi]

But its *also* supposed to be a shiite theocracy. Any complaints there?

And what its supposed to be compared to what is mostly is, is different. Im some games persia is a steppe horde etc..

Irrelevant, dont make persia PU'able for a friend by needlessly changing Persia's Government type.

[Histaxin]

Irrelevant, dont make persia PU'able for a friend by needlessly changing Persia's Government type.

Its not puable as a tribal federation. Im simply giving him the tribal conquest cb, that would be the same as if he had cleansing of heresy on a shiite persia, which is as its intended to be.

[KneeHi]

Its not puable as a tribal federation. Im simply giving him the tribal conquest cb, that would be the same as if he had cleansing of heresy on a shiite persia, which is as its intended to be.

Haha, what kind of logic is that? "Intended to be?" If it was meant to be a Shiite Theocracy then explain what NON-AI game mechanic caused this to go askew.

[Histaxin]

Haha, what kind of logic is that? "Intended to be?" If it was meant to be a Shiite Theocracy then explain what NON-AI game mechanic caused this to go askew.

You argumented earlier on, that its *intended* to be a theocracy, which it is - but usually a shiite one, since thats the religion of persian provs at game start. And since OE is in a quite crappy shape, thats why it falls under *edits* to make it more playable, since were in need of a new perm and iceni took up the role. Should a sufficient number of players object, i have no issues of undoing it, but so far its only you.

Or better, ill just do a quick count of yes/no right before game start when everyones here. No reason to discuss this here via forum.

[Sorgenkind]

You argumented earlier on, that its *intended* to be a theocracy, which it is - but usually a shiite one, since thats the religion of persian provs at game start. And since OE is in a quite crappy shape, thats why it falls under *edits* to make it more playable, since were in need of a new perm and iceni took up the role. Should a sufficient number of players object, i have no issues of undoing it, but so far its only you.

Or better, ill just do a quick count of yes/no right before game start when everyones here. No reason to discuss this here via forum.

Why not discuss it in Forum? It should be that way

And I agree with KneeHi... Shit happens during the game... And OE is still playable... I don't disagree with giving him other edits since it's a new perm, but changing an AI country just so OE can eat it? That's not ok with me.

[Iceni]

As being affected I will have to take a neutral stance here.

The only thing I wanted to add: The idea behind this was a) to circumvent the usual Shiite Persia to make it attackable and b) had OE been played well Persia would not have existed in the state and size it is in

Now I do understand that edits should not necessarily make up for mistakes of former players for the conveniece of the successor, in this case though the only difference would be that I had to find someone constantly to give me a CB on Persia (which would probably be likely). Therefore I do not completely understand the objection against this edit aside from "leaving game mechanics alone", since the implication would be very minor.

Iceni

PS:
Before people wonder: Yes, I was persuaded to perm OE (although i still dislike the idea) and with the edits it received it should be somewhat ok. So I am up for future diplomacy.

[KneeHi]

You argumented earlier on, that its *intended* to be a theocracy, which it is - but usually a shiite one, since thats the religion of persian provs at game start. And since OE is in a quite crappy shape, thats why it falls under *edits* to make it more playable, since were in need of a new perm and iceni took up the role. Should a sufficient number of players object, i have no issues of undoing it, but so far its only you.

Or better, ill just do a quick count of yes/no right before game start when everyones here. No reason to discuss this here via forum.

Im not saying he shouldnt get edits, in fact i am 100% for national edits for a new perm, however editing AI nations that have nothing wrong with them kind of bends the lines of what should be done in terms of MP edits imo. And for the record, i also think OE is in a fine position IIRC. Maybe not top notch but there certainly is no serious damage that should impede a new perm from being able to rise from the mediocrity.

[Lamertu]

I object.

[DuffyZeEmu]

Actually, I don't think I'll be able to make it any more. School and all that. You may want to find another Scand perm- sorry for the inconvenience, but thank you all very much for giving me a fabulous first experience with EU3 MP