I never saw it happening.
Out of 6 provinces surrounding Moscow 4 are behind a river.
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I never saw it happening.
Out of 6 provinces surrounding Moscow 4 are behind a river.
Take a look at loki100's Great Patriotic War to see an example of units in the surrounded Leningrad region surviving due to locally produced supplies.
This is because he manualy edited a save file
afraid so, it was part of the trade off to sorting out the supply mess that the German AI had created, so not a reliable example of what will happen naturally. Now it so happens, I think it should, but that is a very different debate and it was in SF in any case.
Just check the supply status of units that are outside of Moscow. Ofc the supply lines will need to be reorganised, but units won't just die because of lack of supplies.
Hmph - where is our weekly update?!
A late Sunday morning coffee without the current edition of "Carnage" kinda sucks...
A late Sunday morning coffee without the current edition of "Carnage" kinda sucks...
Carnage al Dente
Chapter XVIII - Free the Frog, 2nd try
Players:UK, USA, 2xUSSR, GER, ITA, JAP
Still an Axis player on vacation
Recap: Wehrmacht continues to close in on Moscow. They have, however, had problem with British landings in France and Romania swtiching sides. Japan has also launched a rather powerful attack on commie Persia.
Late July, 1941
German and Hungarian (AI) forces attacked the traitors in Romania and drove them in front of them. Italy did not take part in this as they were busy guarding Il Duces precious new colony. The Brits had safely been leaving the Romanians to die. That also meant that the dangerous British army was at the seas again.
Authors note: For some reason, we could not break the truce before, but as this evening session started, Romania and Germany was at war. Strange (bugg?). Italy could still not break the truce and as we have a House Rule against inviting fellow majors to war, Germany only invited Hungary. The House Rule is there to prevent “sharing” threat evenly, so it would not really matter for this specific situation – but it did not really matter if the few Italians joined or not.
July 31st, 1941
The Italian leadership thought that the Brits had increased their presence at their side if the border and discussed it with their German counterpart. As the discussion continued, the British attack came. It was a powerful attack with armor, motorized and regular infantry. The German-Italian defense force was well dug in behind the river, covered in the woods. It was a hellish tactical situation for the Brits and they really had to struggle. They lost men and vehicles by the numbers.
July 31st, 1941
But the Brits had a plan. They simultaneous attacked from the English Channel on a wide front. The German defenses were far behind the river side, cautious from earlier lessons. It still looked like a potentially dangerous situation. The British blitz was feared by now.
August 4th, 1941
Within a few days, the German line was compromised. Italy sent reinforcements and the Hungarians was called for. It would take some time before these reinforcements would show up. Italy sent planes as well, and some had actually already been present here and they quickly engaged the Brits who came in force, in the air as well as on land. This time, the slightly upgraded Italian planes seemed to fare better.
The south was still strong but Axis feared being attacked from the rear and then started to prepare a decent rear-guard. The Italian division fighting in Coutras was pulled out of the battle to secure the retreat route for the German division who alone managed to fend off the numerous Brits struggling to get over the river.
August 9th, 1941
Already by the last British attack, the Axis leaders had spotted their interest to cut France in half by the latitude along the northernmost tip of Vichy France. They were hardly surprised when the Brits tried that stunt again. Still, this attack was strong and fast and Axis had problems to delay the Brits enough. A French armor under British leadership managed to attack that last province, La Ferte St. Aubin, and chase away the Italian HQ there. German HQs manage to cut the attackers supply-line but it was a rather shallow gesture as they did not have enough regulars to enforce the pocket. The Brits would surely open it again.
The Italians rushed from the south, hoping to reach St. Aubin first.
August 12th, 1941
The French 3rd Armor Division reached this lush province first but was immediately attacked by the Italian 5th Infantry Division. The Italians quickly got the upper hand of the battle and was later supported by the 5th Mountain Division which cemented the outcome of the battle. After roughly two days of hard battle between farmsteads, lakes, small woods and old castles – the French bitterly retreated back across the river.
The Italians had effectively opened the dangerous pocked the Brits had created.
August 14th, 1941
The Italian soldiers had little time to celebrate the victory. They had to quickly dig in as Brits were racing towards them. Two days after their victory, two British motorized divisions attacked across the river. Alas, the Italian position was good and the attackers had to struggle hard. The 5th Infantry’s divisional HQ and field hospital was located in an old castle, Chateaux de St. Aubin.
The battle of St.Aubin was of great importance as several German divisions, including a panzer division and the famous Major General Guderian with staff, was still inside the sack.
August 15th, 1941
The Brits surely understood the significance of St. Aubin and threw everything they had at it. As so many times before, Luftwaffe seemed depleted or locked on other fronts so it fell on the Italians to guard the air space. It was a task that was far from easy, but of great importance. The Italian fighters fared pretty well against the CAGs and it must have been a heartening sight for the Italian soldiers to see Italian fighters chase away the British planes.
They did not have that luck at all times. It happened that British bombers of some sort managed to drop their payloads unchecked. Even so, the Italian positions were good behind the river.
Good news though, Italian reinforcements had arrived to the front and was now unloading trains and organizing themselves in proper battle structure
August 17th, 1941
As the battle of St Aubin raged on, the German and Italian units slowly retreated towards the opening of the sack. Some German divisions, however, had been blitz through or surrounded. As much as three divisions were already lost or would be within short.
The Italian reinforcement now left their assembly area and marched towards the front. The Hungarian started to arrive as well. The shock of the British started to fade and the front seemed to settle somewhat. Still, the battle of St Aubin was still of great strategic value and the Brits seemed to move more troops to support the attack.
August 18th-20th, 1941
The Brits, desperately in their eagerness to take St Aubin, threw in another 3 divisions in their attack of the province. Two of them were French armor divisions, including the 3rd Armor previously beaten here. They seemed to have communication problems with their British commanding officers as they did not managed to reach the battle very quickly. The two motorized division who had been attacking across the river since the 12th were about to be depleted, their soldiers badly battle weary. And so they broke and pulled back before the reinforcements reached the front.
The Brits had lost over 2 thousand men in a few days. For the Italians, this was the greatest battle they had had in the war. Not only had they first thrown out the Brits (French) from St Aubin, but they had valiantly defended the province and thus saved half a dozen German divisions. If fact, by this victory, the entire British attack on France drew to a halt. This was cabled out on all radio channels in Italy and dominated the news paper for days with shaky pictures, interviews and stories. The Italian soldiers in the two 5th were true heroes and without them, the badly planned German defense would have crumbled which would have doomed the west front and perhaps even the entire war… sort of…
.................................
Friendly reminder. Last day to vote in:
Iron HeAARt 2011 Nomination Thread
and
the AARland Choice AwAARds 2012 Round 1
Chapter XVIII - Free the Frog, 2nd try
Players:UK, USA, 2xUSSR, GER, ITA, JAP
Still an Axis player on vacation
Recap: Wehrmacht continues to close in on Moscow. They have, however, had problem with British landings in France and Romania swtiching sides. Japan has also launched a rather powerful attack on commie Persia.
Late July, 1941
German and Hungarian (AI) forces attacked the traitors in Romania and drove them in front of them. Italy did not take part in this as they were busy guarding Il Duces precious new colony. The Brits had safely been leaving the Romanians to die. That also meant that the dangerous British army was at the seas again.
Authors note: For some reason, we could not break the truce before, but as this evening session started, Romania and Germany was at war. Strange (bugg?). Italy could still not break the truce and as we have a House Rule against inviting fellow majors to war, Germany only invited Hungary. The House Rule is there to prevent “sharing” threat evenly, so it would not really matter for this specific situation – but it did not really matter if the few Italians joined or not.
July 31st, 1941
The Italian leadership thought that the Brits had increased their presence at their side if the border and discussed it with their German counterpart. As the discussion continued, the British attack came. It was a powerful attack with armor, motorized and regular infantry. The German-Italian defense force was well dug in behind the river, covered in the woods. It was a hellish tactical situation for the Brits and they really had to struggle. They lost men and vehicles by the numbers.
July 31st, 1941
But the Brits had a plan. They simultaneous attacked from the English Channel on a wide front. The German defenses were far behind the river side, cautious from earlier lessons. It still looked like a potentially dangerous situation. The British blitz was feared by now.
August 4th, 1941
Within a few days, the German line was compromised. Italy sent reinforcements and the Hungarians was called for. It would take some time before these reinforcements would show up. Italy sent planes as well, and some had actually already been present here and they quickly engaged the Brits who came in force, in the air as well as on land. This time, the slightly upgraded Italian planes seemed to fare better.
The south was still strong but Axis feared being attacked from the rear and then started to prepare a decent rear-guard. The Italian division fighting in Coutras was pulled out of the battle to secure the retreat route for the German division who alone managed to fend off the numerous Brits struggling to get over the river.
August 9th, 1941
Already by the last British attack, the Axis leaders had spotted their interest to cut France in half by the latitude along the northernmost tip of Vichy France. They were hardly surprised when the Brits tried that stunt again. Still, this attack was strong and fast and Axis had problems to delay the Brits enough. A French armor under British leadership managed to attack that last province, La Ferte St. Aubin, and chase away the Italian HQ there. German HQs manage to cut the attackers supply-line but it was a rather shallow gesture as they did not have enough regulars to enforce the pocket. The Brits would surely open it again.
The Italians rushed from the south, hoping to reach St. Aubin first.
August 12th, 1941
The French 3rd Armor Division reached this lush province first but was immediately attacked by the Italian 5th Infantry Division. The Italians quickly got the upper hand of the battle and was later supported by the 5th Mountain Division which cemented the outcome of the battle. After roughly two days of hard battle between farmsteads, lakes, small woods and old castles – the French bitterly retreated back across the river.
The Italians had effectively opened the dangerous pocked the Brits had created.
August 14th, 1941
The Italian soldiers had little time to celebrate the victory. They had to quickly dig in as Brits were racing towards them. Two days after their victory, two British motorized divisions attacked across the river. Alas, the Italian position was good and the attackers had to struggle hard. The 5th Infantry’s divisional HQ and field hospital was located in an old castle, Chateaux de St. Aubin.
The battle of St.Aubin was of great importance as several German divisions, including a panzer division and the famous Major General Guderian with staff, was still inside the sack.
August 15th, 1941
The Brits surely understood the significance of St. Aubin and threw everything they had at it. As so many times before, Luftwaffe seemed depleted or locked on other fronts so it fell on the Italians to guard the air space. It was a task that was far from easy, but of great importance. The Italian fighters fared pretty well against the CAGs and it must have been a heartening sight for the Italian soldiers to see Italian fighters chase away the British planes.
They did not have that luck at all times. It happened that British bombers of some sort managed to drop their payloads unchecked. Even so, the Italian positions were good behind the river.
Good news though, Italian reinforcements had arrived to the front and was now unloading trains and organizing themselves in proper battle structure
August 17th, 1941
As the battle of St Aubin raged on, the German and Italian units slowly retreated towards the opening of the sack. Some German divisions, however, had been blitz through or surrounded. As much as three divisions were already lost or would be within short.
The Italian reinforcement now left their assembly area and marched towards the front. The Hungarian started to arrive as well. The shock of the British started to fade and the front seemed to settle somewhat. Still, the battle of St Aubin was still of great strategic value and the Brits seemed to move more troops to support the attack.
August 18th-20th, 1941
The Brits, desperately in their eagerness to take St Aubin, threw in another 3 divisions in their attack of the province. Two of them were French armor divisions, including the 3rd Armor previously beaten here. They seemed to have communication problems with their British commanding officers as they did not managed to reach the battle very quickly. The two motorized division who had been attacking across the river since the 12th were about to be depleted, their soldiers badly battle weary. And so they broke and pulled back before the reinforcements reached the front.
The Brits had lost over 2 thousand men in a few days. For the Italians, this was the greatest battle they had had in the war. Not only had they first thrown out the Brits (French) from St Aubin, but they had valiantly defended the province and thus saved half a dozen German divisions. If fact, by this victory, the entire British attack on France drew to a halt. This was cabled out on all radio channels in Italy and dominated the news paper for days with shaky pictures, interviews and stories. The Italian soldiers in the two 5th were true heroes and without them, the badly planned German defense would have crumbled which would have doomed the west front and perhaps even the entire war… sort of…
.................................
Friendly reminder. Last day to vote in:
Iron HeAARt 2011 Nomination Thread
and
the AARland Choice AwAARds 2012 Round 1
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Despite the operational victory, the strategic situation of the Axis in the West is poor IMO. The British used their lightning quick attacks to great extent and now the Axis has to fight on two fronts (in 1941). We will see how that affects the Eastern Front.
Without extra update on German success in East, we can only guess of Axis chances.
If they manage to pocket another 300,000 men, things may look better. But defending West in 1941 is difficult.
Japan probably is busy rebuilding navy/convoys at the moment, so not much threat.
If they manage to pocket another 300,000 men, things may look better. But defending West in 1941 is difficult.
Japan probably is busy rebuilding navy/convoys at the moment, so not much threat.
It seems as if France will change hands ever so often. The Brits can not hope to hold the continent, sans Spain and a foothold in France. The other units will have to retreat or face the very real danger of being driven into the sea. Of course, that in itself will not be a dange to them, thanks to the ludicrous landing rules in this game.
Thanks for the detailed update on the western front!
(To bad however that we didn't get at least a short overview map of the east - to check if Moscow is still holding and where the frontline is going.)
Concerning the ENG landing in France -
again solid strategic decisions by Zid pulling out of Romania quick and going all out in a place where his supply lines are shorter, airsupport is possible and reaching the GER heartland is and option (at least a threat for GER).
The scale of this landing will force the hand of the Axis and will sapp strength from the eastern front. (ITA reserves + Hungarians supposedly taking the Romanian front indicate a further slowdown in that part of the front.)
On the more tactical level of this landing I don't understand why Zid didn't focus his punch more on the main objective, e.g. reaching St. Aubin and splitting occupied France in half, cutting off a lot of Axis Divisions.
This center thrust should have warranted almost all of ENG Arm/LArm Divisions and would have enabled Zid to widen the front at the Spearhead going for the "final cut" from more than one province. (The ITA defenders behind the river profitted greatly from being attacked from a single province only.)
Especially the Arm/Mot corps used at the narrow Bordeaux front could have made a difference in the center of the thrust.
At Bordeaux leg Infantry would have been sufficient to pin the defenders in place and slowly fight the "grind" accross the river (if that is necessary at all once the Axis troops get cut of by the Mobile Main force in the center).
Reasoning: Arm/Larm for the thrust, Mot to support thrust and flanks Leg Inf slowly moving up the flanks to secure the thrust and to hold the front in secondary areas.
A short update on US neutrality and JAP would be cool.
(To bad however that we didn't get at least a short overview map of the east - to check if Moscow is still holding and where the frontline is going.)
Concerning the ENG landing in France -
again solid strategic decisions by Zid pulling out of Romania quick and going all out in a place where his supply lines are shorter, airsupport is possible and reaching the GER heartland is and option (at least a threat for GER).
The scale of this landing will force the hand of the Axis and will sapp strength from the eastern front. (ITA reserves + Hungarians supposedly taking the Romanian front indicate a further slowdown in that part of the front.)
On the more tactical level of this landing I don't understand why Zid didn't focus his punch more on the main objective, e.g. reaching St. Aubin and splitting occupied France in half, cutting off a lot of Axis Divisions.
This center thrust should have warranted almost all of ENG Arm/LArm Divisions and would have enabled Zid to widen the front at the Spearhead going for the "final cut" from more than one province. (The ITA defenders behind the river profitted greatly from being attacked from a single province only.)
Especially the Arm/Mot corps used at the narrow Bordeaux front could have made a difference in the center of the thrust.
At Bordeaux leg Infantry would have been sufficient to pin the defenders in place and slowly fight the "grind" accross the river (if that is necessary at all once the Axis troops get cut of by the Mobile Main force in the center).
Reasoning: Arm/Larm for the thrust, Mot to support thrust and flanks Leg Inf slowly moving up the flanks to secure the thrust and to hold the front in secondary areas.
A short update on US neutrality and JAP would be cool.
Brilliant update i would zid should have not made the northernmost landing and instead used those for a dash against the chokepoint province.Still doubtful whether russia will survive or not,as long as the red army lives on they can survive even if they lose moscow.
Btw voted in aarland and ironheart for carnage aars.
Looking forwards.
Btw voted in aarland and ironheart for carnage aars.
Looking forwards.
I am wondering what will be next Brits move -> road to Rome or retreat to ships and making Berlin pocket:>?
And how many losses are made by aircraft to land units?
Yeah i know additionally 10-20 raports per day is total clicking disaster now, but for few hours "game time" I think it can be done.
Thx and waiting for more
And how many losses are made by aircraft to land units?
Yeah i know additionally 10-20 raports per day is total clicking disaster now, but for few hours "game time" I think it can be done.
Thx and waiting for more
Russian player here, some comments on the status of my troops and how they stand up to the GER. Not good at all I can tell you which is a surprise for me? I have played USSR before and that time I could have time to switch out exhausted troops and in with reinforcement but at his stage in the game GER get 60-80% right away even when I have good troops with full tech. I have tries to focus my techs on INF and Medium panzer with appropriate doctrines but I must have done some mistakes as the results are as bad as it shows. Although I don’t know how long it “should take” for a GER palyer to reach Moscow. As you know, all MP are different.
However, at this moment, I have not lost too much of the Red Army, and my focus has been on that. There is a very fine balance between staying in combat to delay the GER momentum before retreating or retreat too late and lose the troops. I might have been retreating to quick in some battles and to late in others. The most difficult thing is to keep an even frontline and think ahead where the German spearhead will strike the next time; Daphne did a very good job in keeping my very long front on their toes. I tried in the beginning to have a in deep defense but when I broke, most troops yelled, run for it!!! Zid saved a lot with his Romanian attack and that gave me some breathing room in the south but not in the north. We discussed the supply issue a lot now when GER is knocking on the door to Moscow but more about that discussion after the next update.
The eastern front was handled by either Maxboy or his brother so I don’t have any mental notes at this moment.
However, at this moment, I have not lost too much of the Red Army, and my focus has been on that. There is a very fine balance between staying in combat to delay the GER momentum before retreating or retreat too late and lose the troops. I might have been retreating to quick in some battles and to late in others. The most difficult thing is to keep an even frontline and think ahead where the German spearhead will strike the next time; Daphne did a very good job in keeping my very long front on their toes. I tried in the beginning to have a in deep defense but when I broke, most troops yelled, run for it!!! Zid saved a lot with his Romanian attack and that gave me some breathing room in the south but not in the north. We discussed the supply issue a lot now when GER is knocking on the door to Moscow but more about that discussion after the next update.
The eastern front was handled by either Maxboy or his brother so I don’t have any mental notes at this moment.
I think the most interesting thing that could happen would be one where the Western Allies take an upper hand, but Bitter Peace is triggered and the USSR is knocked out of the war.
This is definitely taking a turn for the interesting. Zid is doing everything he can to draw the Axis' attention and troops away to give Sir Henry a reprieve. Just not sure it will be enough. If Moscow is taken, most troops will likely be shifted to western Europe to defend against Zid's raids and to build up in preparation of American entry into the war, while keeping a sufficient force in the east to keep the pressure on the Russians and not allowing them to regroup. I'm really looking forward to see where this ends up in the next 2-3 sessions.
A payback for the attacks on Axis countries would be the hit on the Middle Eastern countries allied to GB. Can Japan do it?