Carnage Al Dente - A CptEasy multiplayer AAR

It is so funny. I know this AAR is really after action report so the game probably far away from that is reported here. Many of us already knew a while ago that further invasions were inevitable. Romania was one of obvious choices which were discussed in commentaries before the actual report.

I would move now a whole army and strike Hungary while Hungarians in France.

This is once again complete Axis miscalculation. The only way to counter that I see Japan's attack on Suez instead of concentrating and strategically useless India and Eastern USSR or even striking Britain itself or Gibraltar while British army is invading Romania. At the same time Italian navy could hold RN in the Mediterranean while Italians now attack Istanbul with everything they have and cut off Brits in Romania.

The thing is the Axis can counter with the same style if Brits a caught off guard with their pants down they won't be sending its whole army from Britain.

At the end of the day it is also a wit game. Rules are known to all players.

It is much more interesting to follow shocks and how players handle them with interesting solutions when follow a simple historical or "realistic" path.

the Brits could evacuate their forces from Romania.

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Which they undoubtly will. The only hope for the Axis would be a Japanese assault on Suez and through the Med. Speaking of which; what are the Japanese doing?

Spain allowed the Italy to hunt down convoys trying to reach Malta, the India and the Egypt but it was not effective without proper help from the Japan. In RL supply for the English came through the North Atlantic Ocean and the Pacific Ocean and the Japanese ignored them, focusing on other things, allowing the United Kingdoms to successfully defend british interests in North Africa. With the fall of the Egypt and the Suez Canal the Japanese could take India more easily as the British would'd have to carry supplies close to the Japanese islands. Here you can see something similar - not enough cooperation within the Axis alliance (I think that the Germany should send some divisions to help to protect/capture the North Africa) allowed the Royal Navy to have the upper hand in the end, with no opposition on the Mediterranean and easy access through the Gibraltar the fall of Romania is the result. It's much more a strategic mistake to me than anything else. Even if I agree with blackdown and you to a certain point.

IMO the only hope for the Axis is to respond by using some other gamey tactics themselves. Maybe a combined Italo-Japanese strike on Suez? The IJN could then help the RM in the Med.

blackdown said:

+1 to the unviability of defending the entire coast line of Europe. Europe is really just a peninsula of Eurasia, defending the entire of it from amphibious attack is unrealistic.

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To the consternation of Napoleon, Hitler and friends.

You dont protect the beaches by garrisoning the coastline. If you had a div per coastal province there would be none over for Barbarossa. (You should have a strong infantry corps in every third port to prevent easy link ups, and a reserve army stationed either in central/strategic locations.) You protect the beaches by defeating the enemy navy, either destroying its ability to support offensive operations as the RN did to the KM (freeing up Brit assets from guarding the isles) or keeping it on the defensive protecting their own coastline instead of threatening yours (as the RN has forced the RM to do).

If the Axis fails to keep the Brits besieged, forced to garrison their own beaches and patrol their own skies and beaches for fear of a Sea Lion, stretching their resources and keeping them guessing, this is what will and should happen.

Point being that the Euro-Axis combined can not hope to defeat the RN on their own.

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No one ever sang about the Germans ruling waves. Full defeat is hard, and risky, but keeping the Brits on the defensive, unable to pull stuff like this off for fear of a Sea Lion or their transports getting caught, is quite doable. The loss of the KM was not written in stone, and with it and a load of HQ's labled "Sea Lion Army" within radar range of the isles radar the Brits would perhaps not have been so bold.

Some people seem to forget that the KM simply won't achieve much against the RN in the long-term. This is not SP - we are talking about a human player here, not the AI. If Germany starts building many ships, then there won't be enough IC left to build a strong airforce and a strong army. Considering how much more useful air and land units are for Germany and that as soon as the USA joins, the KM will be dead, it's a no-brainer to ignore the navy.

Sea Lion? Seriously, when was the last time you saw a Sea Lion in a MP game? As soon as the fighting in the East starts, there are no troops available for such operations. Moreover, the British player is not a fool and won't leave his ports undefended if Germany is preparing for Sea Lion.

Another interesting update.

The campaign will continnue as a result of the British strike.

I won't comment on 'phib action, but rather ask what the axis players expected from Zid?

Zid fled India and has time and again gone all in on his actions. It seems to me as when the Gibraltar assault went tits up the axis players all decided to ignore the UKs existence.

I wonder if the axis are going to adress the UK situation or attempt to gang up on the USSR. Surely the IJN has got enough ships to force a few landings in the UK?

Cybvep said:

Sea Lion? Seriously, when was the last time you saw a Sea Lion in a MP game?

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I was arguing more for fleet in being strategy, the point is to keep the Brit player on the defensive for as long as possible. If Germany fields a fleet the Britts have to station a BB fleet or two to keep the KM locked up. If you build nothing there will be no threat to the Home Isles the Brit player will guard it with a CA and half a destroyer group and send all those BBs to beat up Italy/Japan and before you know it burly men in plaid skirts are landing behind the lines of your Barbarossa.

The point is not to defeat the RN and sail up the Thames, it's to force the Brits to turtle. Because the alternative is for the Axis to turtle, and they simply can't do it properly.





Personally I was surprised the Axis gave up on Gibraltar. I was expecting the Axis to field the Italian army there, forcing the Brits to either field most their army there or surrender it. For the Axis its a win win, either they get Gibraltar, or they keep most the Brit army tied down where they know where they have it. Why was this not done? Is there some FTM stuff I'm missing in play here?

I agree about Gibraltar, but naval bombers + a fleet with some BBs is all the UK needs to make sure that Germany will never succeed with a potential invasion, unless the German player invests in the navy heavily (which is unlikely) or the RM arrive to help (impossible without conquering Gibraltar).

Baltasar - Euro-Axis had the upper hand as long as it was the Axis against the United Kingdoms. They've lift the siege of Gibraltar too soon when they could try a variety of ways to capture it. The Japan and the Germany made other mistakes, by not helping the Italy in Egypt. India was abandoned and the Japanese focused on gaining ground instead of launching their forces where they were really needed. Even if the submarine warfare is poorly impemented the sheer wastness of the waters alone make sinking supply convoys a worthy task, because when the unit is out of supply it can't attack and it fights less effectively. That's why I think that the Japan and the Germany didn't do their job when it was vital for the Axis' overall strategy. The Germany could send a token force to stop or destroy the British and put pressure from the north while the Japan could attack Egypt from the south. Instead the Japan is playing its own small game and the Germans ignored the Italy, focusing on attacking the USRR at all cost. Even if the Euro-Axis fleet is too small to battle the Royal Navy it's possible to tie the English by simply maintaining the balance of power on the Mediterranean.

Cybvep - Now that you mention it, I wonder where the Luftwaffe is... I don't really see the German airforces doing much, maybe because the AAR is written from the perspective of the Italian player I am a bit biased here.

Cybvep said:

I agree about Gibraltar, but naval bombers + a fleet with some BBs is all the UK needs to make sure that Germany will never succeed with a potential invasion, unless the German player invests in the navy heavily (which is unlikely) or the RM arrive to help (impossible without conquering Gibraltar).

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They are there to put pressure, not defeat anybody.

Sure, you can do it with air as well if you do it properly. My point was that people were talking about how hard it was to defend against Brit landings, when the answer is that not only is offence the best defence but in this case keeping the Brits besieged is the only way to defend Europe. When the Americans arrive you had better gotten most they way to the Urals or you're dead regardless of how you keep the Brits locked up. But you need to keep them locked up somehow, or this is what happens. Turtling is not a viable strategy against naval supremacy, so you must not let them attain naval supremacy in the first place.

Why are people complaining about the Axis being weakened massively by house rules, simply because it is apparent that the Axis won't completely walk over the Allies/Comintern very quickly?

House rules are in place to make MP exciting and balanced, putting any faction in a position whereby they can win the game. Currently this appears to have been working well, as we have seen initiative shift greatly from one side to the other throughout the course of the game. This of course makes for a very interesting MP AAR, as we see a battle of wits between the players involved.

As it stands, things are finely balanced. The initial attempt into Russia has failed/stalled somewhat as a result of clever British play, however this is by no means to say that the Axis can't win. In fact, with the USA still a way off, the Axis are still favourites for me. The fact that neither side has definitively won yet is a good thing surely; would you want this AAR to be over already, with no struggle/uncertainty in the result?

A final word on the amphibious invasions - Obviously, the entire coastline is too large to defend. This is why the naval aspect of the game is actually worthwhile and game changing (as was in real life). What can be done is have the coasts lightly guarded, heavily guarded at key locations, but then a large strategic reserve in place assigned to certain areas to respond to a threat as and where one arises. This is simply the Axis' "fault" by not having such a reserve in place. If the Axis player chooses to neglect this and attempt to steamroll the USSR with greater troop numbers, then obviously they face the risk of this not paying off due to Allied tactics. Germany, for example, kept 250,000 men in Norway alone after a British raid in WW2, depriving them of perhaps decisive numbers in the east, in order to guard against British tactics such as these. Sure, HOI3 isn't brilliant at portraying the logistical issues of naval invasions, but even so, as I have explained above, it is only a "gamey exploit" when the Axis players themselves choose not to guard against it.

Happy with how the AAR is going so far CptEasy, keep the fun coming

PS - Sorry about this post which doesn't comment on the AAR game situation itself, but on the last page I did make a post which was more that way inclined...So I hope this is okay and not considered off-topic.

Hats off to Zid, so far he's played one hell of a game. And a great AAR as usual, it's been fantastic seeing all the ultra-unorthodox happenings single players lacks!

I'm surprised the Axis didn't move to close the Bosporus. Zid himself doesn't seem to be occupied doing much else.

Guys, if you are unhappy the way they are playing the game...


... just zap away, pick another channel...


They play with their rules
They have fun
You are lucky they spent time writing about their game

Can you keep that in mind ?

Can somebody tell us what is happening on the other fronts?

Cybvep said:

IMO the only hope for the Axis is to respond by using some other gamey tactics themselves. Maybe a combined Italo-Japanese strike on Suez? The IJN could then help the RM in the Med.

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Yes, I am waiting for that from the chapter XII. If they did it 3-4 chapters earlier there would be no Romanian disaster. The best time was when Brit player was busy in France.

Cybvep said:

Sea Lion? Seriously, when was the last time you saw a Sea Lion in a MP game? As soon as the fighting in the East starts, there are no troops available for such operations. Moreover, the British player is not a fool and won't leave his ports undefended if Germany is preparing for Sea Lion.

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This is because nobody planned and dared to do it not because it is difficult to do. Just wait when Brits are busy somewhere else (let's say in Romania) and off load your troops in Britain. 1 month of supplies is enough to capture ports even if they are defended

Baltasar said:

Except that the HR forbid the Japanese to land in Europe. Nobody's loss? Yea, right.

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They do not forbid. Japan could not send troops to Europe before Barbarossa.

Love the move by Zid! I think it was the only thing possible to give the SU a brief respite. Axis should have defended better, but I think overall their strategy is still very good. Let's not forget, Japan controls roughly half the world. Those resources/IC/MP are definitely going to make themselves felt. And the British, while well commanded and powerful in quick strike forces, are not going to be able to keep up as the game goes on with so much lost territory. Plus it sounds like the American entry is STILL not imminent. This last chapter was a spectacular victory for the Allies, but it's premature to call the game now. This is going to be the best AAR yet when all is said and done... I think the Germans should keep pushing east wherever they can. You don't want to give the SU too much time to reorganize. The British are still dangerous of course, but there aren't a lot of easy targets left. Wherever they land, it's unlikely to be a critical area before the Axis has time to throw together a decent defense. The real defeat would be if they permanently changed the good Axis strategy.

This is what makes these simulations so fascinating. I love to think, "what if the British had withdrawn from their empire to fight harder on the continent?" "What if the Germans had thrown caution to the wind and gone all out earlier into the Soviet Union". It's silly to say just because something didn't happen in real life that it couldn't have been wildly different with changes in strategy. How much more devastating could British commando raids have been if the Germans didn't keep overwhelming force nearby at all times but were instead outnumbered by better armed Brits? Losing entire brigades would not be in the least bit absurd. And in terms of the landing/retreating, it's not that hard to imagine either. IRL, allies needed huge transport capacity because they had to out-supply a powerful and committed German army in defense, expending massive amounts of fuel, ammo, etc at least according to Gen. Bradley. If you're landing virtually unopposed in the soft underbelly, you're not going to need anywhere close to the same capacity when you're not doing the same amount of fighting.

The only disappointment is CaptEasy not being aware of the impending surrender of Romania. That's a shame because his defense would obviously have been different had he known. But strange things happen in war. I like reading this group because no one seems to get too upset when something unexpected goes against them. Can't say I always play the same way