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  1. #1
    Second Lieutenant Cocco81's Avatar
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    General questions

    Hello everybody!!

    I've been playing CK1+DV for quite a lot, with highs and lows... the recent high comes from a video preview of CK2 which I WANT.

    Meanwhile, in due preparation, I'm playing but I've come up with some questions (some mechanic, some conceptual) which I'd like the community to give advice on.

    NOTE: for some of these the question is more a "what do you think", because maybe there's no "right" answer: the right one is personal, and depends on enjoyment I think!

    1. what is the aim of the game? apart form keeping the dynasty of course... I mean... I could just sit there and do nothing...

    2. expansion: for sure claiming neighbour titles is a way? is there any other way? maybe marriages? How can they work, without extensive murdering of legal heirs?

    3. piety: some AI rulers range in the THOUSANDS of piety. How can that be? did they sell the whole kingdom to bishops? f yes that would look as a one-shot solution, bound to failure...

    4. and on the same issue: bishoprics. why should I want to have one?

    5. granting titles: is there any reason NOT to give titles to people of my dynasty only? e.g.: I conquer county X: If my badboy is low, why should I make the previous count vassal, when I could easily take all and have a far cousin of mine on the throne? (ok, I know the historical ties of families to the land, the traditional customs... I'm speaking strictly of "in game" situations)

    6. speaking of traditional customs: all of Europe goes with this law. Isn't feudal contract more convenient for vassal loyalty? Sometimes policies look to me like no-brainers. Same for succession laws (salic primogeniture, or maybe elective if all my vassals are from my dynasty). Am I missing something?

    7. Stability. I'm at +3. I know it's good. I don't know what it is good for, though.


    Any comments are welcome! If possible keep track of question number

  2. #2
    First Lieutenant Galliun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocco81 View Post
    Hello everybody!!

    I've been playing CK1+DV for quite a lot, with highs and lows... the recent high comes from a video preview of CK2 which I WANT.

    Meanwhile, in due preparation, I'm playing but I've come up with some questions (some mechanic, some conceptual) which I'd like the community to give advice on.
    Hey, Cocco. Welcome to the CK world, hope it goes to your liking!

    First things first: Are you using the latest DV Beta Patch? It's quite important, as it fixes a ton of bugs. Now, on to the questions!

    1. what is the aim of the game? apart form keeping the dynasty of course... I mean... I could just sit there and do nothing...
    Well, the game is what you make it to be. You set your own rules. Personally, I get the most fun doing a hard challenge, and roleplaying as much as I can. For instance, let's say you have a ruler with the Reckless trait. Whenever events came up that had answers that seemed Reckless, you'd have to go for that. It's great to see an awesome character unite a huge tract of land, and then see his son lose it all. Remember: Losing is fun!

    2. expansion: for sure claiming neighbour titles is a way? is there any other way? maybe marriages? How can they work, without extensive murdering of legal heirs?
    Expansion is a toughie. It depends on where you stand. If you're a lowly count, there's a huge possibility that your expansion will come only through inheritance and shrewd marriage practices. If you're a king, however, expansion through conquest is much more likely, but it has to be done slowly, lest your infamy get too high! Be judicious on your wars. A good practice is to never have Reputation above 4 or 5. I use 4 for a personal guideline.
    On marriages, if you're intent on expanding like that, always marry into the same family, continuously. Chances are, you'll inherit some eventually, though it may take some time.
    Guideline: As a count, learn to be patient. As a duke, learn to be judicious. As a king, learn to not be too aggressive.

    3. piety: some AI rulers range in the THOUSANDS of piety. How can that be? did they sell the whole kingdom to bishops? f yes that would look as a one-shot solution, bound to failure...
    The highest I've ever gotten in a ruler was 1100 Piety, and that was after two crusades (and he STILL didn't become Papal Controller). Most likely, the AI rulers also are getting that high like that. They have an advantage, though, since they can keep their armies well fed and ready to go without many actual penalties. As a player ruler, be careful when crusading, sending thousands of men to the other end of the map via boat takes quite some time, and the attrition costs are horrendous. Only crusade with armies of your vassals, in my opinion. You get all the glory, and none of the expenses (other than the boat rides).

    4. and on the same issue: bishoprics. why should I want to have one?
    You nailed it on your last question. Piety bonuses. I don't tend to create many, seen as their inheritance can screw things up (for instance, I [King of Iberia] have a vassal on Scotland). Good for the small bonuses, but I still prefer vassal counties / duchies.

    5. granting titles: is there any reason NOT to give titles to people of my dynasty only? e.g.: I conquer county X: If my badboy is low, why should I make the previous count vassal, when I could easily take all and have a far cousin of mine on the throne? (ok, I know the historical ties of families to the land, the traditional customs... I'm speaking strictly of "in game" situations)
    There are reasons. Rivalry in families are not that uncommon. Your relative may just be incredibly bad. You might want to keep the land for it's income. There are tons of reason, of course. But, given the exact same statistics on both rulers, yes, giving land to a relative is better.

    6. speaking of traditional customs: all of Europe goes with this law. Isn't feudal contract more convenient for vassal loyalty? Sometimes policies look to me like no-brainers. Same for succession laws (salic primogeniture, or maybe elective if all my vassals are from my dynasty). Am I missing something?
    Pretty much everyone on Europe will convert to Feudalism as the game progresses. I suggest you don't even worry about customs laws, just go with the flow.
    Inheritance laws, on the other hand, are much more important. Trust me on this: NEVER, NEVER, NEVER change your laws to Gavelkind. NEVER. I'm not exactly sure which are teh best, but Salic (or Semisalic?) Primogeniture (or Consanguinity?) are good, I believe.

    7. Stability. I'm at +3. I know it's good. I don't know what it is good for, though.
    Yes, Stability is AWESOME. Avoid stability drops. Stability, while not as good as in other Paradox Games, is still a very much so desirable stat. Higher stability = better events, while lower stability = worse events. If you go down to -3, expect bad stuff.

    I'm sure other guys can give you better answers on some stuff. Hope I was of help. Good luck!

  3. #3
    I think I agree with Galliun on just about all of this. I would only expand/differ on a couple of things.

    2. Depending on where you're positioned on the map, you may also be able to expand by simply declaring war on religious enemies, for which you don't need claims. This is tough to do if you're playing in the British Isles, France, or certain parts of the Empire, but it works just about everywhere else. The Baltic pagans are the easiest targets, I find.

    3. Successful crusading can net you enormous amounts of piety, particularly if you have the crusader trait. I once had a ruler get past 4000 piety because he led two successful crusades and took lots of provinces adjacent to the crusade target (which also gives you piety). Didn't hurt that he was chaste, modest, and zealous as well.

    4. Vassal bishops get a bonus to loyalty from your piety as well as from your prestige, so if you are a pious ruler they will tend to be even more loyal. Also, bishops never get inherited outside of your kingdom/duchy.

    6. Feudal contract is the way to go. Change it once and don't change it back, from a strictly gameplay point of view. I like to RP it and try to change it to royal prerogative depending on my ruler's traits, but there's no overriding gameplay reason to do this. Also, feudal contract law can give you the great event where a vassal's loyalty increases, your prestige increases, and you have a chance to gain the just trait because you're ruling justly and fairly, in the vassal's eyes. As for inheritance law, I like Salic Consanguinity. It ensures that your lands will always pass to a member of your dynasty (unless there aren't any), and because the law selects the "strongest" son (not sure of the precise weighting of the criteria but it depends on title ownership, prestige, and martial stat) to rule after you, you can maneuver your favorite son into being your heir by handing him titles in a way that's more reliable than elective law, in my experience.

  4. #4
    Second Lieutenant Cocco81's Avatar
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    Thank you all for your replies! I'll add another question.. which is also a mod suggestion

    8. Claims: sometimes I get a claim on a title held by a vassal of mine. Is it possible (or does a mod exist) that allows me to choose one claim, give it up for a loyalty/relation boost and/or badboy reduction? I know an event fires sometimes, but it's quite rare and picks the claim randomly...
    Maybe it could be: +25 relation, +20% loyalty and, for the badboy, -0.5 (count-level), -1 (duke-level), -2 (king-level), 15% chance of giving the trait "weak willed". "Decision" disabled for weak willed and proud characters.

    I know this would work as a decision which is not really implemented as a featur ein CK1... however I'm no mod expert...

  5. #5
    Hetman Wielki Koronny Lamprey's Avatar
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    About feudal contract: I sometimes change it to something else. Feudal contract law is great to have in time of war, for bigger vassal armies and increased loyalty. But during peacetime, provided you have a good chancellor, it's not so great; if you're trying to build up your realm, it can be helpful to be able to increase scutage for extra money.

    If you don't like to micromanage, though, you won't go wrong just setting feudal contract and forgetting about it.
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  6. #6
    Play Like A Champion Today Yakman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lamprey View Post
    About feudal contract: I sometimes change it to something else. Feudal contract law is great to have in time of war, for bigger vassal armies and increased loyalty. But during peacetime, provided you have a good chancellor, it's not so great; if you're trying to build up your realm, it can be helpful to be able to increase scutage for extra money.

    If you don't like to micromanage, though, you won't go wrong just setting feudal contract and forgetting about it.
    Feudal contract is a failsafe for a bad succession, or when YOUR BROTHER THE POPE and YOUR NEPHEW, THE KING OF GERMANY decide to pound you into the dirt while your armies are out SAVING CHRISTENDOM FROM THE MONGOL HORDES.

    Sorry. It was quite upsetting.
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  7. #7
    Colonel postm00v's Avatar
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    I have to admit, this is the way I conquered Scotland and England in my current game. They were out crusading, so I squashed them like the insects they are.

  8. #8
    First Lieutenant Galliun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yakman View Post
    Feudal contract is a failsafe for a bad succession, or when YOUR BROTHER THE POPE and YOUR NEPHEW, THE KING OF GERMANY decide to pound you into the dirt while your armies are out SAVING CHRISTENDOM FROM THE MONGOL HORDES.

    Sorry. It was quite upsetting.
    Feudal Contract doesn't affect inheritance laws, I believe.

  9. #9
    General Grumpalodian Aardvark Bellay's Avatar
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    I think he was referring to tough times, rather than inheritance and the fact that your family turns on you.
    He must have lived through such a miserable situation. Haha....CK1 is great on these moments.

    BTW, Royal Preorgatory is nearly impossible when you are a christian emperor as the pope will ask you to change to Feudal.
    My next game will be Flanders, going all Royal Preorgatory and Regal Supremacy doing science on Thought and Religious Flexibility.
    Yeah !

  10. #10
    I like to go popular law myself and tell my vassels that I am not interested in feudal law. I then gain power for peasants and burghers against the church and nobility. As for the rest I choose eclisiastical balance and then dont make any bishoprics as who needs then. Or you could get a realy old theologian create the bishopric with royal supremacy and they die you inherit the land then change back to what the pope wants that would be fun.

    I always use salic consanguity for inheritance although. i think it would be fun to use Gavilkind if you are playing as Britian/Ireland Kingdom and fight it out.

    I research thought, power and offensive tactics. My style of play is to maximise earnings. So I always conquer vassals lands. The more money they earn the more I keep. I like to find a wife spawned by the game with no family and then let her hold large demesene so my heir inherits both (this is good if your king is pants for holding demesene)
    This is my AAR thread for Alsace.

    http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...d.php?t=460411

    I intend to hold Central Europe before crusading. Then maybe a World Conquest.

  11. #11
    Play Like A Champion Today Yakman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galliun View Post
    Feudal Contract doesn't affect inheritance laws, I believe.
    no, it doesn't.

    but it helps when the times are tough and the breakers are beating the boys. when the world turns against you, your dukes and counts are a lot less likely to jump on you too.
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  12. #12
    First Lieutenant Galliun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yakman View Post
    no, it doesn't.

    but it helps when the times are tough and the breakers are beating the boys. when the world turns against you, your dukes and counts are a lot less likely to jump on you too.
    True enough.

  13. #13
    Play Like A Champion Today Yakman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hidden Legend View Post
    I like to go popular law myself and tell my vassels that I am not interested in feudal law. I then gain power for peasants and burghers against the church and nobility. As for the rest I choose eclisiastical balance and then dont make any bishoprics as who needs then. Or you could get a realy old theologian create the bishopric with royal supremacy and they die you inherit the land then change back to what the pope wants that would be fun.
    if you are an active crusader, then creating bishops is awesome.

    since they have no demesne penalty or heirs, you can grant them huge tracts of land without them carving it up into fractious parcels that might get inherited by another king. additionally, if the bishop ever gets elected pope, you get all the land back and can redistribute it if you want. plus, you get a buku piety bonus when you create the bishopric, which if you do it enough, can get you sainted or beatified.

    i am a huge fan of bishops.
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  14. #14
    First Lieutenant Galliun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yakman View Post
    if you are an active crusader, then creating bishops is awesome.

    since they have no demesne penalty or heirs, you can grant them huge tracts of land without them carving it up into fractious parcels that might get inherited by another king. additionally, if the bishop ever gets elected pope, you get all the land back and can redistribute it if you want. plus, you get a buku piety bonus when you create the bishopric, which if you do it enough, can get you sainted or beatified.

    i am a huge fan of bishops.
    I always see bishops as unreliable. I'm more comfortable distributing count titles, don't know why. I don't have a single bishop as a vassal. I'll give it a try some time.

  15. #15
    General Grumpalodian Aardvark Bellay's Avatar
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    I once played a game with mighty Apulia and had some bishophrics in the middle east.
    Well, one turned heretic, one turned muslim after a muslim somehow became heir (maybe he was catholic first and turned muslim later , dont know), another one down in distant (nowadays iraq) imediately declared indepence when an arab became bishop...

    Yeah, guess, i dont give bishophrics in muslim countries and im still suspicious if its an arab one. So if an arab shows up in inheritance line either revoke the bishphric or kill the guy. Otherwise another revolt, indepence or whatever trouble you can think of will arise.
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  16. #16
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    Such an interesting things are happening with the religion in this game. I have two general questions:

    1) What are the diocese bishops are good for? Are they are adding some piety to mine or what?

    2) How can I become the Papal controller? I have 3 bishoprics and never one of my bishops had been elected as a Pope. Is it any kind of strategy for this?

    3)How can I check the characteristics and traits of the persons which I want to appoint as a diocese bishop? (when I left-clicking on the person in the list the game just appoints this person to this position)

    Thanks in advance for any answers.

  17. #17
    General Grumpalodian Aardvark Bellay's Avatar
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    @Nosferatu
    (Answers as far as i know of and experience)

    1) You get piety when creating a bishopric, but the amount of piety differs. It shows when hovering your mouse over the country name you'll be giving away.
    You need more piety than the pope has prestige to avoid excommunication. Though i think it doesnt help in events.
    2) Usually friends and relatives become papal controller. If there is none, then the lord with most piety becomes the controller.
    3) You can check them like any other person. You can only grant bishoprics to religious people at your court.
    Easiest is to look whom you can give the chaplain position and look at their character screens or go to the ledger and have a look at your characters at court (1st page).


    BTw, better create a new thread for your own questions, as posting in old threads is not in favor with the forum rules. Dont klnow why, but thats the way it is.
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  18. #18
    Ordnung muß sein Supermoderator Veldmaarschalk's Avatar
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    1) Diocese bishops serve as trigger/modifier for all kinds of events

    2) Depends on the situation. In general, if a Crusade is going on, the the catholic ruler with the highest piety becomes the PC. If there isn't a crusade going on then the nearest relative (who is a ruler) becomes the PC. The PC only changes when the Pope or the PC dies or when you reload.

    1) You get piety when creating a bishopric, but the amount of piety differs. It shows when hovering your mouse over the country name you'll be giving away.
    You need more piety than the pope has prestige to avoid excommunication. Though i think it doesnt help in events.
    That is not really an answer to his first question, which is about diocese bishops.

  19. #19
    General Grumpalodian Aardvark Bellay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veldmaarschalk View Post
    1) Diocese bishops serve as trigger/modifier for all kinds of event

    .....
    That is not really an answer to his first question, which is about diocese bishops.
    Oops, sorry. eergh....well then,... Diocese Bishops are especially important for religious conversion events (religious conversion of provinces as well as heretic events and more...).
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  20. #20
    Captain Nosferatu's Avatar

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    By the way, I played for almost 100 years and I never saw AI changing it's laws. It's 1160 (I am started from the very beggining from 1066) and almost everyone in the world are employing traditional custom, only some spaniards are having feudal contract. Does the AI thinks that it is useless or what is going on?

    And what does traditional custom means as a historical facet? I can understand what feudal contract simulates or royal prerogative or even a popular law thought, but a traditional custom is a mystery for me.

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