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The Emperor patted his Vaidila on the palm, trying to get him to calm down slightly.

"Ah, but King Gustav, the people happily flock to the old gods. Gods who do not require them tithe themselves into poverty or to restrain themselves from all that life can offer. I've never seen a people more willing to give up oppression than the people of Poland. But the poor people of Rome, did they choose? I doubt it when I watch the armies of Hungary treat Bulgaria and the Greeks as if they are already part of their ever-growing Empire. I assume that the Holy Roman Empire might have an opinion with Hungary beginning to gaze upon the Habsburg lands like they once eyed the Balkans. Envy, I feel."

"But my general is right, these are old discussions, we must speak about Russia! Who else can better protect the Russian states, our great wall keeping out the cold of the steppe, than the Lithuanians? All we require is that we be able to move freely through their lands or the expedition will be crippled by red tape. The Russian lands are a breeding ground for rebellion and revolution. They cannot fight both the Mongols and themselves and expect to walk out victorious."
 
King Ludovicus had been anticipating the attack from the Bulgarian representative, although not so soon. In any other situation, such slander would not have been tolerated. But the King had not come to bicker with Hungary. He had plans, but they did not involve her. This dispute would merely provide a distraction. As such, Ludovicus was inclined to be polite.

"Harsh words, Your Highness," he said, "Words in need of clarification."

"First, We resent the comparison to the Tartar hordes. These are barbarians. Wherever they go, they reap the land for its worth and leave nothing but destruction, death and discord. The Crown of Saint Stephen, however, has brought civilisation to the Balkans. Where there was disorder, We have brought unity. Where there was squalor, prosperity. And where there was degeneracy, morality. For the first time since the fall of the Roman Empire, peace reigns in the Balkans - peace guaranteed by the Kingdom of Saint Stephen."

"We do not come to quarrel with Her Highness," he continued, "The Crown has no ambitions for Bulgaria, territorial for otherwise. We are desirous only of peace in the Balkans. Now that We have brought order to the remaining savage despotates of the Balkans, We are content with our current borders. We are willing to guarantee the integrity and independence of the Kingdom of Bulgaria, in exchange for a treaty of peace between our two kingdoms. Furthermore, We think it only rational to see that the greater threat to the Balkans comes from Asia, where the Turks have overcame the Romans and expanded up to the Hellespont. If Romania falls, the Turks will burst through the bottleneck of Constantinople and pour into Europe proper. We need not remind Her Royal Highness that her demesne would lie directly in the path of such an invasion, and would instantly fall after the Romans."

Ludovicus looked over to the Tsarina, steepling his fingers.

"We hope that the proposed treaty, recognised by both the Crown of Saint Stephen and the Crown of Bulgaria, will provide adequate reassurance to Her Royal Highness and foster good relations between our kingdoms."
 
"I'm getting put off, good Emperor, by your constant skirting around my main question and reason being here. You constantly talk about the hordes and other things such as Hungary looking toward Austria or the Russians being inept. I'm sure if the Russians didn't have such pressure from both sides they might stand a chance coming out independent centuries from now. If not the horde, why not the Lithuanians? Also, who were the polish being oppressed by? Before their conquest, they were under a polish King. And now? They are under a Lithuanian emperor.

I don't think the Hungarians would be so unwise to advance into the Empire while their Pagan neighbors constantly grow stronger. That would leave their flank wide open to a possible invasion by your state.

Now, if you do really care for the supposedly oppressed, why would you send the Ruthenians, who no doubt were oppressed in your idealisticly biased eyes, to the Crimea in order to settle their lands with your own ilk?

If your empire is so strong and stable, why would you care about the Russians who you so callously stated as disunited? Your empire would be obviously able to stand the hordes, especially with the Russians baring the brunt of the occupation.

Now I end with this. What will an empire, that whose leaders say is so strong and invincible, do after taking out its main threat? Where will it go to next on a continent that will become hostile towards it after the hordes are taken out? If history is any indication, a growing state needs more fuel to grow and after consuming its own resources look outwards? I demand, as another sovereign lord, you make clear as toward your intentions. The current world cannot have its mind at peace with a vastly alien leader who, just before, was conquering their neighbors and just now expects peace and unity. The Russians should no doubt know the conquering part because of the hordes. If the hordes just in a blink stopped and came to the peace table, they would be suspicious; and rightly so. The Lithuanians are doing the same, they ask for military access that they didn't feel was necessary before. If you are to gain any trust and lasting peace among your alien neighbors, it would be best to make yourself less alien to them.

So, what say you? Will you once again try to divide us or explain yourself in a way that the hordes themselves could understand and feel at peace to stop conquering? I eagerly await an answer. Otherwise, any trust I was hoping to find with you and your empire in coming to this table will go the way of the wind."

I came here to be polite and to seek stable ground, but all I have found is an earthquake who goes where it pleases without providing for the people a stable ground to build upon.
 
"Peace my lords !" Shouted Wladyslaw "We are not for speak of old rivaltries but new threat but of the new threat that are the mongols !"
"King Gustav,you ask why we protect the russians ? For humanity. This is known that those hordes are composed of demons. If those demons beat the principalities, they'll next comes in our empire. If we can stop them,we don't want to see our lands and our houses plundered and burned. I don't want to see Livonia in the hands of evil. We,in Lithuania,can understand the russians,we can feel sorry for russian's problems,and we can help them.This is not a political or a religious question,but a human question."
The baron drank a little of wine." So,let us speak about russian principalities : Dear Jaroslav,we have at many times spoken about the terms of your defense.We agreed about the free access of our troups on Moscow's territory. This access has well-served your lord,for now. Your country is ever up because of our gold, and also because we crush the various rebels of the country. I think you'll speak in ou favor. After all, It's in your interest that Lithuania protect the East"
 
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The remarks of the Emperor, however, required no leniency.

"We need not cite the irony of His Majesty unjustly accusing Our Crown of treating the Kingdom of Hungary and the Roman Empire as vassal states, when Lithuania demands that the eastern kingdoms allow the Emperor's armies to march across their borders at will. The Tartars are not the only threat from outwith. What if this army chooses to abandon its march on the steppes in favour of a march on Moscow? The city would have fallen before the Muscovites could even respond. And even if the independence of Russia was ensured, would it be truly independence if the Slavs merely exchanged the Tartars for the Lithuanians?"

"The horde must be tamed," he said finally, "but only on the terms of an alliance of equal partners, not an overlord and its slave states."
 
OOC: I'm done for right now. If you need anything, send me a PM or at least make it so that I can respond to it later.
 
General Kolzof had kept silent until now, but seeing how this delegation was quickly heating up he knew he had to act.

Country men and neighbors please listen, I realize there is hostility in the air but can we all agree that the vile hordes are the greatest threat at the moment. I say if the pagans are offering help then let's take it. if in the end Lithuania proves treacherous, then Christianity will at least have a unified front against them. Emperor I think perhaps it would put everyone at ease if you swore an oath to uphold the peace in these lands.

Arkadiy returned to his seat. He was by no means a diplomat but he hoped he managed to diffuse some tension.
 
Giovanni suddenly woke up and looked around, looking carefully at each of the persons next to him, then his trusty priest foretold him of the talks that had occured during his sleep, "or time with god".

Great men, heatens, heretics and followers of the true faith. We stand here today, not only for the sake of the russian people, but for the sake of christianity it self. The Russian people diverted from the true faith of the one and only and he has punished them, letting the heatens eat away at their land and converting their brothers to their beliefs so that they will rot in hell. I for one will not stand for this, "Great Emperor" of Lithuania, your heathen beliefs are WRONG, you are not powerful because your hallucinations of some pick-pocketing ghost tells you that you are, but because the russian people are weak and ill determined and has diverted from the path of GOD.

YOU, Emperor, must see the light in the tunnel and lead your people out from the very darkest deeps of hell and present them with the one and only saviour of manking, he who died so that we would be free of our sins, he who gave his life so that we may live. WE REJECT HIS WILLINGLY SACRIFICE when whe merely argue, we must act! Unite under the ture faith and we can drive the heathen barbarians in the east away from the very cores of human civilization, the holy father has already begun in the outremer, lets follow his example.

To you russians, denounce your heretical beliefs and rejoice as the holy father himself embraces you with compassion and understand, for he is the father of all gods children on earth, he represents god and for what good will it come to divert from the direct hand of god? I SAY YOU SHALL repent and rejoin the ONE AND ONLY TRUE FAITH! For in the end there will only be one true faith standing, and it will be Christianity at its very core. IF you repent and embrace god in his full glory, not only will the angels of heaven come to you, but all of christianity to the west will come, marching with the steel and fire that they can bring, flesh and bone will be torn apart when the children of god goes east beneath the one true cross and brings the light upon the heathens pursuaded by the devil.

REPENT!


Giovanni sat down and with a calm look he looked around and waited for the response of the others.
 
King Ludovicus sat awkwardly as Giovanni made his speech. His plans had hinged somewhat on the support of the Vatican. Religion was a convenient smokescreen for politics, and a useful tool in foreign policy. The temperament of the Papal envoy certainly lent himself to Ludovicus' cause - even if it was expressed somewhat zealously.

"The Legate does make a good point," he said, "If the eastern kingdoms were to accept the Catholic Church, the Holy Father would be empowered to declare a crusade against the Tartars, bringing the armies of Christendom to bear against them. Such a force would be more than capable of ensuring the survival and safety of the Slav territories. Moreover, they would be embraced into the Christian family and accepted as equals in Europe, ending their isolation."
 
Jaroslav sat quietly as the men bickered about religion and tartars. King Ludovicus and Giovanni were two very intelligent men, if not a bit arrogant. He did like the idea of ending the east-west schism of Christianity, a united body is much stronger then a divided on. However, would it solve the problem? Even if the two churches united and declared a holy crusade against the mongols, how would they get there? The only way to get to the Russian principalities would either be to go through Lithuania or across the Balitic, which was dominated by pagan galleys and pirates. Would the pagan emperor allow access across land or into the Lithuania's "Mare Nostrum"? So many questions so little time.
 
After the Papal Ambassador's speech, Giedrius Paras could barely keep quite, but Ludovicus spoke first. By supporting Giovanni's will, the hungarian king just made the general even more eager to speak.

"You can't be serious? I'm sure the russians princes would be more pleased with the Lithuanian help, who ask for nothing in return and can give better support, rather than the catholic help, which demands the russians to give up their believes."

Giedrius Paras almost starts to scream "While we, the pagans, ask for unity to defend the russians, you just think of growing your power! While we have proven our will to the cause, the catholic church keeps trying to undermine our efforts for pure greed!"

After a deep breath, Giedrius calms down. Everyone present can see that he is no diplomat, getting exalted very easily. Still, there is reason in his voice, he feels that his and his fellow countryman's efforts and intentions are being ridiculed by the Papal Ambassador.

Calmly, he turns to the russians representatives "I'm sure you know of our good intentions. We have already helped you stabilize your country. I just hope you choose what is best for you"

After a quick look at the Papal Ambassador, the general sits down.
 
Giedrius comment made Jaroslav snap. "Nothing!?! Nothing!! How about the loss of our independence? How about reduction to vassalage? How about Lithuanian soldiers burning down villages for being christian? I know, I was in Kiev when you General Giedrius sent in troops to burn down a church full of people on Christmas! This treaty is nothing more than an offer for annexations!"

Jaroslav turned to the Russian side of room. "If you men are true Christians, then you will see this pagan treachery!"
 
Arkadiy Kolzoff was uneasy nothing brought tempers to aflare faster than religeon and the papal Ambassador was hardly subtle with his views.

I admit I'am uneasy with trusting these pagans, there beliefs are foreign and heretical but what the Papal Ambassador and The king propose would destroy a faith and culture that has flourished in Russia for near 500 years, I simply cant accept that. I've witnessed the work of the hordes first hand, and whatever sins these Lithuanians are accused of they are no Mongols.
 
"Funny, your sense of entitlement has made you blind, Ambassador! Remind me whose treasury has been shelling out untold riches to fund your wars and keep you on your throne, because I know more than one Imperial treasurer who would argue that I should let you fall and put the money into walls of stone instead. And you speak of Kiev like there was never a time that your own armies raided Lithuanian soil and the rape and salting of her cities and farms. And you, Hungarian King, speak of the power of the Crusades... yet the Iberians and Greeks have been driven from Anatolia... only your weak little colonies in the Near East survive! But for how much longer?"

Returning to the question at hand, "Yes... Jaroslav, we expect to be able to move about Russia unimpeded, because we need you strong. And you are only strong when there aren't twenty-five thousand man peasant armies pillaging through the country side, defeating organized armies and sieging Moscow. Who put down that rebellion? O... that's right... General Giedrius. And who kept Voivode Ilya on his throne when his uncle showed up with an army of Tartars, forcing people to convert to Islam or die at the sword? O... that's right... General Giedrius. The Expeditionary Army has saved countless Russian lives, and countless more throughout Europe. Our gold and our grain has kept many a Russian from starvation. But alas, I guess no good deed goes unpunished."
 
REALLY OOC:
I'm sorry Capiatlist but I had to

[video=youtube;4I8pneJkxBY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4I8pneJkxBY[/video]

My Musical Senses were just tingling
 
Gustav gritted his teeth, religion was something that he had hoped wouldn't become that much of an issue. While it might have proved a tool to keep the status quo at most, it seems that it was now being used to butt heads against the parties. Gustav had at least enough sense to know the Russians wouldn't just back away from their beliefs while the papal ambassador's is shoved under the rug by his blind zealousness.

"Ambassador, I'm afraid that you don't see the politics beyond Italy's natural boundaries. While you may feel confident staying in Italy which is fully catholic, you no doubt haven't the experience in dealing with unbelievers beyond the pyre. You cannot just tell a state's leader, especially one who professes himself to be an Emperor, to convert or be damned. Its also would lend some sense to your no doubt one track mind to know that you aren't dealing with somebody who believes in anything like our true faith. While we profess believing in one God, they believe in multiple and I doubt that they have any indication of hell.

As for the Russians, if you seriously believe God's punishment on them is the Lithuanians, I would hope you aren't that dense. Why would a, as you would put it, righteous punishment come in the form of something that is purely beyond Christian, or for that matter, monotheistic in nature? Once the Russians are punished. . ." Gustav puts emphasis on "punished" in an already straining sarcasm, ". . .wouldn't God seek to it that they are immediately turned toward the light rather than being plummeted back into an even darker dark? I would hope a messenger of God would have earthly sense as well as heavenly.
"

Gustav then turns toward Giedrius.

"You say that you Lithuanians ask for nothing return? I personally see you are asking for much. You ask for the Russians, an already besieged people, to open one gate so that one enemy may come in and help with the defense. You being a general should immediately see the folly in that logic. Once the new enemy quits the field, what is to say that the old one will just march out?

I fear you also misunderstand our intentions, at least mine. You fear that we lust for your land, your people, your wealth. What wealth could come from Poland, the Baltic, and the European steppes? What could possibly grow that would grow our coffers? Why would we tack on more peoples than we could possibly manage?

And stabilizing Russia?
"

Gustav laughs.

"Your mere presence destabilizes it. You were the ones who for years killed their men and conquered their homes. I see not how this could stabilize them but it could have possibly united them, against you! If this treaty is signed, the Russians would be metaphorically inviting them for more as well as lowering themselves to a step just above vassalage. In fact, the reason for this treaty was to defend Russia and that is the lord's bargain of vassalage itself. If you Liths, no doubt doing a favor of clearing the Russians backyard of pests, defeat the horde your emperor will no doubt like as big a repayment. And this treaty might then turn into a tool of extortion.

As for the papal ambassador, I hope I have at least dusted off his blinders. Also, why would all of Christendom turn against our Christian cousins just so that a heathen neighbor has the best chance of bringing their house down? The Pope would hopefully see this potential folly in alienating family, however distant, and having him flee towards an enemy who in ancient times was known to put family to a cross?

Finally I ask for everybody to remain sane. I ask for the popes assistant to put his brain where his heart is no doubt charging to, and I ask for you, Giedrius, to try to remain calm. I myself would fear as to whom I might unintentionally put away while in a fury while I also ponder as to why the Lithuanian emperor must ask a man of war to come to a table of peace.
"
 
Stylianos tried biting his tongue, hoping he could plead to the Russian monarchy in a more private place. But the recent outbursts made by Giedrius and company holding back impossible. Looking straight into the Papal ambassador in the eyes
, he stated, "The pagans are insignificant to the threat that the antichrist in the Vatican!". He paused, realizing that his Russian had a huge, overreaching Greek accent to it. "I probably sound like an idiot to them", he thought in his head, "No matter. I must continue anyways!". Starting up again, he said, "Look at my once-glorious homeland, the Roman Empire. We were doing fine on our own, holding back the Ottoman threat while expanding into Greece. But then the demon from the west unleashed his milk and honey, and swayed the Emperor that our ways were wrong. They claimed that the Roman Empire, the greatest the world ever had and will have, were the ones following the false religion!

Now the Emperor is nothing more than a figurehead, bound by the wishes of the west. No longer does the eternal empire rule from itself. And the Pope content with this! Oh no! He had the audacity to now demand the noble Russians to fall into his empire of evil. Look down south, and see the result for yourself. Stagnation, rebels, and the compromise of the rule of the rulers! It is paramount that you do not let your own nations fall sway to what happened to my homeland
"

Sighing, he then looked at the Prince of Moscow. A quick, "I need to see you in private after this 'conversation'" was the only thing to come from his mouth.

EDIT: This thread moves way too fast. There has been at least 3 new IC posts when i first started this.
 
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Jaroslav face was beet red from embarrassment and anger. He glared at the pagan emperor with eyes that could shatter steel. "You think that you can do whatever you desire. You believe that you can go about your crimes without punishment. Oh no Kazimieras. Your empire will not last forever. Your conquered people will seek vengeance and will tear your empire apart. And I will watch Vilnius burn to the ground!" Jaroslav's hand instinctively move towards his sword....
 
The Tsarina moved from the Emperor's ear, she sat back in her seat. Things were going swimmingly. That is: Until a delegate reached for his sword. In a distinctive Bulgarian fashion, the Tsarina stood. She inhaled deeply, and barked in a commanding tone "Jaroslav! This is supposed to be a civil and well conducted meeting, do not ruin it with your pride and whimsy."

She straightened herself, her Outburst probably made the mood turn even sourer. But she spoke once again, in a matter more suiting a woman. Calm and elegantly, "Gentlemen. If you are to calm down for one moment... Must you all be so pigheaded? I do not mean to offend any of you here, but in order for peace to truly occur. Then we all must make 'sacrifices'." It was almost as though She scoffed at her own words, but nonetheless. She continued, "Honored Delegates, we must realize something. That if we do not set aside our pride for just one moment, then a unified front against the Mongols to the East, and the Mohammedans to the South. Will never be possible. Whether you wrongfully demand us to convert, or you demand death to others in spite. You must learn to hold you tongues, that is a rule of diplomacy. If you cannot even do this simple task, then you all must have not been paying attention while training for your current positions. Just calm down for one moment, and think before you speak."


The Tsarina sat back down, sipping her drink carefully. She had just made a move that could be interpreted in many ways. Hopefully the Pride of these men do not get in the way of her plans...
 
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