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Thread: InTveresting Times: An AfTver Action Report

  1. #241
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    I'll do my usual block of replies at some point later, but one needs special attention...


    Quote Originally Posted by Dron22 View Post
    Why did you pick Patron of the Arts NI out of all the other choices?
    I did not get with Machiavelli quote, he actually said it's better to be feared than loved.
    Hi Dron22


    1) Dr loki has kindly pointed out the gameplay reasons for choosing Patron of the Arts. Other than that, though, it's a role-playing choice: I like to take it at some point during my games unless I have a special reason not to (a strict Lutheran Germany for example), James IV is probably my favourite historical monarch and some of my characterisation of Mikhael is based on him, and, quite simply, I like to think that if I ran a country myself, I would leave a great artistic and cultural legacy for those who came after me

    2) A well-thumbed Oxford World's Classics copy of The Prince sits conveniently nearby, nestled between Warren Farrell's The Liberated Man and the autobiography of Ferenc Puskas *wields*

    So, what he actually said was...

    Chapter XVII: Of cruelty and mercy (etc)

    '[...] every prince must desire to be considered merciful and not cruel; nevertheless he must take care not to use such mercy badly [...] one would like to be both one and the other [loved and feared]. But since it is difficult to be both together, it is much safer to be feared than to be loved, when one of the two must be lacking.'

    (my emphasis and judicious editing)

    So in short, Machiavelli does say that if one of the two two must be rejected it should be love, not fear. Mikhael does not refute this: he says, as Machiavelli does, that both are important and both are to be aspired to
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  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by loki100 View Post
    Patron of the Arts gives you lots of nice freebies such as +2 to innovation (so if you are planning to westernise it really helps with the speed at which you can get the sliders correct), the wave of innovation event (10% off all tech costs) and goodies such as very cheap (500 ducat) universities and fine art galleries. its one of those NIs that looks a bit pointless but has lots of nice hidden advantages.
    Ok I did not know that, as I never tried to have that NI. I wish the benefits (and downsides) of each NI were not hidden. I remember I once picked the NI that increases tolerance of heretics as Russia once, before long I kept getting events where province x converts to Catholic or Protestant. As for innovation gain, you can wait until 1600s to Westernize as Russia and still dominate the world by 1750. Although I aim to Westernize before 1550.

  3. #243
    Colonel Dron22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyregecko View Post
    I'll do my usual block of replies at some point later, but one needs special attention...




    Hi Dron22


    1) Dr loki has kindly pointed out the gameplay reasons for choosing Patron of the Arts. Other than that, though, it's a role-playing choice: I like to take it at some point during my games unless I have a special reason not to (a strict Lutheran Germany for example), James IV is probably my favourite historical monarch and some of my characterisation of Mikhael is based on him, and, quite simply, I like to think that if I ran a country myself, I would leave a great artistic and cultural legacy for those who came after me

    2) A well-thumbed Oxford World's Classics copy of The Prince sits conveniently nearby, nestled between Warren Farrell's The Liberated Man and the autobiography of Ferenc Puskas *wields*

    So, what he actually said was...

    Chapter XVII: Of cruelty and mercy (etc)

    '[...] every prince must desire to be considered merciful and not cruel; nevertheless he must take care not to use such mercy badly [...] one would like to be both one and the other [loved and feared]. But since it is difficult to be both together, it is much safer to be feared than to be loved, when one of the two must be lacking.'

    (my emphasis and judicious editing)

    So in short, Machiavelli does say that if one of the two two must be rejected it should be love, not fear. Mikhael does not refute this: he says, as Machiavelli does, that both are important and both are to be aspired to
    Thanks for clarifying Fyregecko, the point Machiavelli had is that being feared is the better choice. Of course it's always good if you can have both, but often you do not get that luxury! I understand now why Patron of the Arts was your choice, but it still surprises me a bit you chose it at this point when you are conquering horde territories which you will want to convert to Orthodox as soon as possible, and I would have thought Divine Supremacy (+0.50 Missionaries per year) NI would be most useful for you now, unless you have it already. In one game as Muscowy I had some luck with Orthodox Zealots appearing in Lithuanian territory, they then marched across my land to the Golden Horde which I already totally occupied. I left them alone to siege the provinces, convert them and move on to the next one while I retook the province, colonized it till it became mine and did not ever have to worry about converting them. I let them do it with around 5 provinces until I decided it was cheating so I attacked and destroyed those Orthodox Zealots.

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dron22 View Post
    Thanks for clarifying Fyregecko, the point Machiavelli had is that being feared is the better choice. Of course it's always good if you can have both, but often you do not get that luxury! I understand now why Patron of the Arts was your choice, but it still surprises me a bit you chose it at this point when you are conquering horde territories which you will want to convert to Orthodox as soon as possible, and I would have thought Divine Supremacy (+0.50 Missionaries per year) NI would be most useful for you now, unless you have it already. In one game as Muscowy I had some luck with Orthodox Zealots appearing in Lithuanian territory, they then marched across my land to the Golden Horde which I already totally occupied. I left them alone to siege the provinces, convert them and move on to the next one while I retook the province, colonized it till it became mine and did not ever have to worry about converting them. I let them do it with around 5 provinces until I decided it was cheating so I attacked and destroyed those Orthodox Zealots.
    1) Indeed, I think we're singing from the same hymn sheet, just with different emphasis

    2) I can understand why you tough PotA was an odd choice (I've got another Idea coming up with my next Government Tech level, but the +2 Stab Advisor event is too tempting a chance to change something). I had a tough choice between PotA, Church Attendance Duty (reduce Reformation spread and lower my quite high Stab costs) and Ecumenism (although as you said to loki it has a rather annoying event - don't know if there's one that converts a province to the right denomination). In the end, though, it was down to what Mikhael would have wanted

    And I can see the logic behand Divine Supremacy, but actually, number of Missionaries isn't a big issue. It's the same situation as the Colonists - I have plenty of them. I just can't afford to send as many as I'd like I'd like to be able to afford to have 6 or 7 active at the moment, but I don't always have the 30-odd Ducats to send them, and my army is a bit under-strength relative to my current size so I'd have trouble with multiple large religious uprisings (especially if it was somewhere like Kiev or Samara).
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  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyregecko View Post
    1) Indeed, I think we're singing from the same hymn sheet, just with different emphasis

    2) I can understand why you tough PotA was an odd choice (I've got another Idea coming up with my next Government Tech level, but the +2 Stab Advisor event is too tempting a chance to change something). I had a tough choice between PotA, Church Attendance Duty (reduce Reformation spread and lower my quite high Stab costs) and Ecumenism (although as you said to loki it has a rather annoying event - don't know if there's one that converts a province to the right denomination). In the end, though, it was down to what Mikhael would have wanted

    And I can see the logic behand Divine Supremacy, but actually, number of Missionaries isn't a big issue. It's the same situation as the Colonists - I have plenty of them. I just can't afford to send as many as I'd like I'd like to be able to afford to have 6 or 7 active at the moment, but I don't always have the 30-odd Ducats to send them, and my army is a bit under-strength relative to my current size so I'd have trouble with multiple large religious uprisings (especially if it was somewhere like Kiev or Samara).
    It's a bit strange that you get Reformation spread though. I played as Russian principalities several times and never seen it happen, I also often force Poland and Sweden to become Orthodox because they always attack me every time I fight the hordes. And then an Orthodox Sweden and Polaanddon't get any spread of Protestants or Reformists afterwards, so I assumed that Orthodox are immune to spread of other Christian religions unless you pick Ecumenism NI.
    As for Divine Supremacy NI, I usually by then only get +0.05 Missionaries per year unless I pick that NI or conquer Judea, Mecca or Rome. There is a religion decision called Act of Uniformity or Advancement of Religion Act decision that can help but if you want to Westernize soon it's usually not enough. That's why I always try to conquer Mecca or Judea by then, if I cannot do that than I choose the Divine Supremacy NI, then replace it with another NI later when I no longer need it.
    Last edited by Dron22; 23-02-2012 at 01:18.

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by morningSIDEr View Post
    I can well imagine what kind of sculptures and paintings!
    Manneken Pis?

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extreme Unction View Post
    Exactly what I had in mind!
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  8. #248
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    @ Omen: Yes, he does wish things to be pretty. Who doesn't?

    @ loki100: Indeed. After all, while the sciences allow us to live, and understand life, it is the arts that make it worth living

    @ morningSIDEr and Extreme Unction: One of the first statues Mikhael commissioned was in a very similar style, although...let's just say that it was on a much larger scale. In several ways. To this day, art historians cannot decide whether to call it a large fountain or a small waterfall.

    @ All: The new Episode is quite short, nothing of huge importance happened in the next few years, but I wanted to move things along a bit. More doodles int he next one
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  9. #249
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    Episode XXIV: Tverestroika

    Dobczyński strode into the prince’s study, a pile of reports under his arm. Mikhael III, Prince of Tver, owned the finest library west of Germany, its shelves creaking under the weight of books on art, politics, religion, botany, taxonomy, and a hundred other subjects. Many were pristine first editions, although the fact that the printing press had only existed since 1440 rather negated this statistic.

    The literary collection of this most splendid bibliophile, though, was not the focus of Dobczyński’s attention as he closed the study door behind him. He was rather distracted by the elegant female reclining on the prince’s favourite couch. Under normal circumstances, to be interrupted by such a female, with large, green eyes, finely toned legs and a sultry smile would be a most pleasant experience. The situation was altered not by the sitter’s assets, but by her species.

    Hej Puśka.’

    Pusia continued to stare at him intently.

    ‘Is he...you know...’ He gestured around the room.

    Pusia grinned, and gave a soft growl. Her elegant tongue licked her lips.

    ‘I...I need to talk to him, if that’s possible...’

    The Siberian tiger inclined her head towards the door behind her, which led onto a private balcony where Mikhael liked to sit and read.

    ‘Right...I’ll just go and knock...’

    Her eyes watched him. They were impossibly coquettish for a two metre-long hyper-evolved killing machine.

    Dobry kot...dobra kocia...’ Dobczyński slowly edged towards the door and, as a result, towards the smiling feline.

    The issue was resolved for him, as the door opened, and Mikhael Rurikovich entered, a French edition of the Gospel of Luke in his hand. He smiled as he saw Dobczyński, and gestured for him to sit at the chair opposite that occupied by Pusia. Dobczyński gently eased himself into the chair, not taking his eyes off the tigress as Mikhael gently lifted her onto his lap.

    ‘So! Dobczyński. What has been happening?’

    ‘We managed to set aside some funds, sir, and begin work on the mighty Tverian Navy.’




    ‘Excellent. Once our new warships are finished, our pirate troubles will be over.’

    ‘Yes, sir. Though if the Swedes did their pirate-hunting properly we wouldn’t need to.’

    ‘They tried to, Dobczyński, but they don’t have a navy anymore.’

    ‘The pirates destroyed them? The British? Spanish?’

    ‘Nothing so glorious. When building them, they had inserted Sprocket C twenty-three into Hole G fourteen instead of fifteen.’

    ‘Idiots.’

    ‘I know. Within minutes of launch? Glug glug glug. Bottom of Oresund.’ He sighed a weary sigh. ‘Anyway. It matters not. Besides, all mighty nations should have a suitably mighty navy. Looks good in paintings.’

    ‘Yes, sir. On the decorations, sir...’

    ‘Yes?’

    ‘Well, I can understand the flagship, Aleksandr II, having a bear as the figurehead. That’s sensible.’

    ‘And?’

    ‘Well...are you sure it’s sensible to have the Konstantin II’s figurehead as a tiger?’

    ‘Absolutely! A reflection of his tenacious personality!’

    ‘Not inappropriate?’

    ‘Also, we don’t have many leopards. The tiger is fine. What’s next?’

    ‘Very well, sir. The Second Army has made another advance into Horde territory.’



    ‘Excellent. We need to end this fight as soon as possible. Our men need rest, Dobczyński, as does the economy.’

    ‘Agreed, sir. Oh, and Professor Kholmsky has some enw ideas about how we can equip our infantryman. They have made me approximately five percent happier.’

    ‘Five percent happier? Can’t argue with that.’



    A guard entered, saluted, and handed Dobczyński some new reports.

    ‘Ah. The Horde have surrendered, sir.’



    ‘Splendid.’

    ‘And the Prime Minister ahs some new ideas about how the nation can be run, sir.’

    ‘Which are?’



    ‘Hmm...you might want to burn this one, Dobczyński.’

    ‘Why, sir?’

    ‘I don’t think we’re quite ready for democracy yet. It’s an expensive business. And destabilising. Besides, it would leave Nobles in charge.’

    ‘Aren’t you a Noble, sir?’

    ‘I am a Prince, Dobczyński. There is a difference.’

    ‘Oh.’

    ‘Anyway. Redirect our military efforts. I want the Kazakhs driven out of Europe.’



    The battle for Voronezh was bloody, with heavy casualties on the Tverian side, but ultimately, the Kazakhs were defeated.



    Another country, though, was taking far too much interest in the region for Mikhael’s liking. Another beneficiary of the Golden Horde’s collapse, the Kingdom of Hungary had made rapid gains towards the east, through Polish and Lithuanian territory and into Ukraine and Crimea. Now, her diplomats were not only looking at the heathen steppe nomads as potential areas of expansion, but to the kingdoms of Russia.



    Hungary’s conduct in the region was akin to someone walking into an all-you-can-eat restaurant, taking all the food to one table, then starting to eat it very, very slowly, leaving nothing for anybody else. They had conquered huge swathes of Horde territory, but had only colonised a few provinces. Mikhael was becoming annoyed by their conduct, though he did not yet show it: he would wait until the Principality was more settled. Then, it would be time to cut the greedy westerners down to size. He ordered a ceramic pig to be sent to the king of Hungary, leaving him free to interpret the gesture as he saw fit.



    In better news, though, the Vladimir region had been successfully re-converted to the Orthodox faith.



    The war with the Kazakhs continued. Tver was not in a position to colonise the nomads’ European territories, but wished to occupy enough of their lands to force them to concede defeat and end the war.



    The collapse of the Golden Horde was still causing its problems for Tver, as more Qasim Khanate Nationalists made their way over the border, clearly unable to read the sign that said ‘Tver, not Qasim Khanate’ in fourteen languages.



    Further trouble was caused as the royal cook fell down a manhole while collecting ingredients in Vologda.



    At sea, though, things were going well, as the Principality’s two new carracks were launched into the White Sea, and swiftly hunted down and destroyed the pirates that had plagued her coastal towns for some fifty years.



    The carracks had been constructed at great expense, and much of the timber for their construction had come from the donations of wooden furniture by the nobility. However, the King of Sweden was grateful for Tver ridding his eastern coast of pirates, and allowed Tver’s merchants back into the flat-packed furniture markets of Lappland. Many ornamental chairs and tables were purchased – but no warships.



    Dobczyński sat down to plan the next phase of their campaign. At least all was safe within Tver herself.

    He felt a gentle stroking sensation on his back. A playful purrrrr.

    Almost everything.
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  10. #250
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    Pusia is certainly making her mark: I found this particularly worrying:

    Her eyes watched him. They were impossibly coquettish for a two metre-long hyper-evolved killing machine.
    pity you are still being pestered by rebels who just don't know where to stop though
    Remember, whatever the question, the answer on 18 September is Yes ...

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyregecko View Post
    The situation was altered not by the sitter’s assets, but by her species.
    Likely the first time he's found such an attractive sounding pussy unappealing.

    Rather vexing now that it is not only the various Hordes which are proving a nuisance but also western powers, hopefully Mikhael deals with them soon enough. At least he got a good deal for his navy, it only cost him some flat pack furniture!
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  12. #252
    It's the time to consolidate. Taking horde lands (when the Hungarians allow) and growing. There will be time enough in the future for Europe to intrude.

    (The Pusia parts were awesome)

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyregecko View Post
    Dobczyński gently eased himself into the chair, not taking his eyes off the tigress as Mikhael gently lifted her onto his lap.


    Siberian tigers ain't small! Mikhael has the strength of madness!

  14. #254
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    @ loki100: It's decreased a fair bit, thankfully. Most of them seem to have got the message that Tver is not Qasim Khanate. News travels fast in Russia, though.

    @morningSIDEr: It certainly is the first time! Just wait until she starts wearing mascara...

    And yes, the mighty armada of Tver is now afloat, and her citizens can once again relax on reasonably-priced, strangely-named furniture. Hungary are going to be the next problem, I think, either them or the Ottomans depending on who gobbles up what Horde territory.

    @ Europe: Indeed, though the bloody westerners are determined to throw a spanner in the works. I swear they're more interested in pissing off Orthodox countries than they are in stopping the heathen!

    @ Extreme Unction: Yes. Yes he does He may be the intellectual Rurikovich brother, but he's still huge. In many ways, as Dobczyński would...what was I saying? Yes. Puśka being co-operative helps with this activity as well, of course, but you're right. You don't want to annoy a Rurikovich. Never ends well.

    By the way, some curios (fun screenshots from this and the next update - under construction - that either aren't really relevant to Tver or didn't make the cut but amused me anyway)



    This is what I mean about Hungary and the buffet restaurant food-hogging. I can't do anything with any of those provinces unless I attack them



    Danzig kicking the snot out of Poland in revenge for changing all their roadsigns



    For those interested, this is what pre-firearms GBR soldiers look like with the sprite pack First time I'd seen them, and I think they're pretty nifty.




    And the Ottomans had so much fun colonising Dagestan, they decided to keep going. For a year.
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  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyregecko View Post
    And yes, the mighty armada of Tver is now afloat, and her citizens can once again relax on reasonably-priced, strangely-named furniture.
    http://literalbarrage.org/blog/wp-content/fartfull.png

  16. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyregecko View Post
    This is what I mean about Hungary and the buffet restaurant food-hogging. I can't do anything with any of those provinces unless I attack them
    Curse Hungary for being so, uhm, well, hungry!

    Rather amusing to see Danzig giving Poland such a kicking, Poland must really be struggling.
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  17. #257
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    Episode XXV: Life On Tvers

    A Prince cannot rule without the consent of his government. Sometimes this is an very irritating situation, especially when the government are idiots.

    Dobczyński was uneasy as he delivered the latest news to Mikhael III Rurikovich, Prince of Tver and Ryazan.

    ‘Prime Minister Telyatevsky has agreed, sir, that his previous policy of industrialised shipbuilding was a silly idea.’

    Mikhael nodded. ‘Good. What has he replaced it with?’



    'Not a Russian city?

    'No, sir.'

    'Not a rich province?'

    'No, sir.'

    ‘He really is an idiot.’

    ‘Yes, sir. That he is.’

    ‘Summon him. I need a word.’

    ‘Yes, sir.’

    Later that day, Dobczyński arrived returned to the palace to deliver his afternoon report. He was surprised to see the Prince of Tver already waiting for him. It had been a short meeting, apparently. Pusia was lazing on the carpet next to his chair, chewing on some meat.

    ‘Finished already, sir?’

    ‘Wasn’t much to say, Dobczyński. I had him re-assigned to a more useful position.’

    Pusia looked up from her meal. She grinned. Eloquently.





    ‘So, Dobczyński. What news do you bring me?’

    ‘Some good news, sir. The city of Perm has been successfully converted to the true faith.’

    ‘Splendid. Perhaps we should colonise Mohawk...’

    ‘What was that, sir?’

    ‘Nothing, Dobczyński...’



    ‘On the down side, sir, we’re at war with the Nogai again.’



    ‘Ah...you see, Dobczyński, there is the difference between us. You see a down side. I see an opportunity.’

    ‘You want to expand, sir?’

    ‘Why not? Drive the Hordes before us. A boost to morale...and they hold some useful territory. Some iron deposits, some reasonably rich cities.’

    ‘Very true, sir. I will assemble the army.’

    Dobczyński rode once more to the east to lead the Second army into battle. The First army was led by his protégé, Vlad Sheleshpansky, with whom he had a good relationship (except when he accidentally called him ‘Wład Szeleszpański’, as he often did). Sheleshpansky was the son of one of Tver’s most prosperous merchants, and had gained a reputation as a fearsome warrior amongst those who hadn’t met him. What he did have, though, was a propensity to dye his hair shocking pink, terrifying enemies on the battlefield.



    The Tverian force plunged into Nogai territory, laying siege to every town they came across. They did not stop until they reached the prosperous trade city of Astrakhan, where they met the enemy army head-on.



    The enemy cavalry squadrons panicked at the sight of Sheleshpansky’s hair, fleeing from the battlefield and stampeding their own infantry. In the confusion, Dobczyński led his Gwardia Szkocka, comprised of Scottish and Polish veterans, into the fray, and slashed, kicked and headbutted the enemy force into submission.



    Dobczyński ordered Sheleshpansky to head east. In hindsight, he should have been more specific, and said that he wished him to remain within the mapped universe...but his young protégé was a very literal man.



    Meanwhile, the Hungarians grew ever more aggravating. The king of Hungary proclaimed himself to be king not only of Hungary, but also of Ukraine, asserting his right to rule over the city of Kiev. Publicly wishing peace with his infuriating neighbour, Mikhael arranged the delivery of a beautiful statue to the king of Hungary, showing him exactly what he could do with the city of Kiev, at what angle, and to what depth (a measuring tape was also provided, free of charge).



    The Uralsk region was poorly defended, and soon capitulated to the Tverian army.



    Colonisation of the region soon began, Dobczyński keen to create a buffer region between the nomad territoriers and the rich city and gold mines of Samara.



    Tver was still at war with the Kazakhs, allies of Nogai. The Kazakh forces had retreated into Nogai territory, and Dobczyński saw a chance to destroy a second enemy force. He left Sheleshpansky in charge of a small force in Baybaktu, tempting the Kazakhs into the attack. Once the nomads were committed, Dobczyński then brought up the rest of the Tverian force, crashing into them from behind (Dobczyński, like all his kin, was a master at engagement from the rea...umm...



    It worked, anyway.



    Prince Mikhael was a dedicated patron of the arts. Not only of painting and sculpture, but also the making of sweetmeats. Peppermint was a particular favourite. Thus, when he heard of the latest ingenious creation of Master of Mint Mirtofan Mikulinsky, he saw no reason to wait before subsidising this important, growing industry. The increased revenue – and happiness – generated by the Mintmeister’s genius greatly strengthened Tver’s economic position.



    His love of sweets, though, was tempered by a revolutionary understanding of the importance of a balanced diet. Sweets were, after all, loathsome in their own deliciousness, and moderation was important to the living of a good, moral, and healthy life. His proclamation of such so inspired the Holy Roman Emperor, that he completely changed his eating habits.



    The Uralsk region was rapidly colonised by the Tverians, and was soon under the Principality’s control.



    In celebration of this latest triumph, a series of grand statues and fountains were created to commemorate the achievements of the Rurikovich dynasty.



    Last edited by Fyregecko; 26-02-2012 at 19:50.
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  18. #258
    Field Marshal loki100's Avatar
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    its amazing how far a realm can go on a combination of dodgy haircuts and a hungry cat
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  19. #259
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    A pity about Telyatevsky's passing but he truly has gone to a better place.

    The drawing of Pusia, especially her eyelashes, had me in stitches, really great stuff. I'm glad that Nogai is being given a right good thrashing, the Horde need be dealt with so that Hungary can be punished for her cheek. It has to be said that Mikhael certainly has a gift for great art, the most recently erected statue looks quite wonderful.
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  20. #260
    Great update, as per usual. I really liked the mint and diet jokes, as I am a low brow humor connoisseur. However, who is the current heir? As good of a consort Pusia may be, she can't grant heirs. Unless . . .

    Tiger-blood?

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