Legacy of Cromwell [Alternate History]

[ZomgK3tchup]

Actually, shouldn't the *Democratic German states be ready and willing to ally anyway?

Don't they? I put Silesia in Austria's sphere of influence, but I guess I should ally Brandenburg and Westphalia from the start.

I wrote two events so far, one for the dissolution of the United Kingdom and one for the dissolution of Great Britain into England. Next I want to create an even for British unification and then start working on simulating the German Confederation (which will be somewhat more similar to the Holy Roman Empire than it was in our world).

I want to integrate this into PDM, so I'm going to steer clear of major technical and POP changes for now and focus on events and any glaring flaws in the map.

[Dyranum]

If Denmark still supports Norway and Sweden supports Britain then the outcome would be pretty much the same unless pre-Napoleonic borders are restored or Norway is given its independence like it wanted after the Napoleonic Wars. The latter scenario is what I represented, where Norway won its independence.

Denmark didn't even want to be a part of the Napoleonic Wars. They tried to stay neutral. Unfortunately, the Coalition tried its best to keep that from happening, for some weird reason.

And what do you mean with "If Denmark still supports Norway"? Sweden would never tolerate an independent Norway, especially not if they lost Finland.
Sweden loses Finland-->Denmark loses Norway to Sweden.
Sweden keeps Finland-->Denmark keeps Norway.

What province is it, and is it reasonable for Luxembourg to still control this area?

Well, if the partitions of Luxembourg never happened, then we might need to actually change the shape of some provinces.

[ZomgK3tchup]

And what do you mean with "If Denmark still supports Norway"? Sweden would never tolerate an independent Norway, especially not if they lost Finland.
Sweden loses Finland-->Denmark loses Norway to Sweden.
Sweden keeps Finland-->Denmark keeps Norway.

I meant to type Napoleon, not Norway.

Historically, Norway fought Sweden for independence. However, British and Russian forces opted to support Sweden by blockading Norway. Its very possible for Norway to become independent here, especially if one of both parties chooses not to support Sweden or inversely supports the Norwegian independence movement.

But I see your point. I'll restore Scandinavia back to its vanilla status and make Norway as vassal of Sweden. The inverse scenario is somewhat less likely.

Well, if the partitions of Luxembourg never happened, then we might need to actually change the shape of some provinces.

Arlon fits pretty well. By looking at a map of Belgium, it looks like Belgium annexed Arlon and simply made it into a "Luxembourg province" of sorts.

[Seek75]

Whats the story behind the Spanish colonies and Spain/Iberia/whatever, if I may inquire?

[ZomgK3tchup]

Whats the story behind the Spanish colonies and Spain/Iberia/whatever, if I may inquire?

Since the American War for Independence never happened, the rest of the New World had nothing to model for their own independence movements and republics. As a result, Latin America is still under the rule of the viceroys and the Spanish crown.

Since the Spanish Empire persisted through the Napoleonic Wars, the British and French were afraid of a potential power vacuum in Iberia and South America if the Carlists plunged Spain into revolution. Therefore, a compromise was made to give Catalonia to the Carlists (since that's where Carl was from, IIRC).

The United Kingdom of Portugal and Brazil still exists, but because of rebellion in both Spain and Portugal proper and the current state of Germany, the Portuguese Crown has chosen to stay in Brazil (as it did during the Napoleonic Wars).

When AHD comes out, I may rework the Portugal-Brazil so that Brazil is a substate of Portugal, but that's at least a month. Also, I'll probably give it Portugal's green color since the two states could never exist on the map at the same time. I'm not too fond of PB's dark green color thing.

[Seek75]

Is there any plan to include events leading up to/for South American independence?

[Faeelin]

I wrote two events so far, one for the dissolution of the United Kingdom and one for the dissolution of Great Britain into England. Next I want to create an even for British unification and then start working on simulating the German Confederation (which will be somewhat more similar to the Holy Roman Empire than it was in our world)..

I don't understand; why does Britain collapse?

I'm not sure the Latin American states wouldn't have independence movements of their own. There was no model for a revolutionary republic in 1789, but the French had no problem lopping off a king's head...

[ZomgK3tchup]

Is there any plan to include events leading up to/for South American independence?

Yes, but I want to play around with substates when AHD comes out.

I don't understand; why does Britain collapse?

If Scotland ever gains its independence then the country would no longer be Great Britain; this is a purely hypothetical scenario and directed more toward French or Russian players. There is no scripted event chain for the collapse of Great Britain. When I said "British Unification", I meant unification of Great Britain and Ireland into this timeline's version of the UK (which should be exceptionally difficult to do).

I'm not sure the Latin American states wouldn't have independence movements of their own. There was no model for a revolutionary republic in 1789, but the French had no problem lopping off a king's head...

Right now, the Latin American states are independent in all but name (at the moment, they are not vassals and are only loosely affiliated with each other).

I want some events for them to declare independence and put them at odds with Spain in the 1830s-1840s, but I'm hesitant to do anything with the new features that AHD will introduce.

Latin America is the most difficult region for me to work with since I don't have much to base anything off; a lot of what they have is based on events that didn't occur in this timeline, so I have to either make them Spanish or start fabricating reasons and flags and whatnot.

Edit: This is what the changelog currently looks like.

----------------------------------------
- VERSION 0.15
----------------------------------------
- Added England as an event-releasable nation
- Added Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen as a playable nation
- Changed Naples' map color from blue to purple
- Decolonized Cabinda
- Gave Arlon to Luxembourg
- Gave Sicily to Spain instead of Catalonia
- Partitioned Belgium between Flanders and Wallonia
- Made Ireland part of France's sphere
- Made Ireland Opposed to Great Britain
- Made Norway a satellite of Sweden
- Returned Guadeloupe and Martinique to France
- Removed Luxembourg as a Dutch satellite
- Renamed Kleves to Cleves
- Added "Last Election" to various countries
- Adjusted starting consciousness for various countries
- Brandenburg and Westphalia are allied from the start
- Rearranged the Upper House for various countries
- Created new localizations for American and British parties
- Added a decision for the United Kingdom to become Great Britain
- Added a decision for Great Britain to become England
- Added "Proclamation of Great Britain" event for the United Kingdom
- Added "Proclamation of England" event for Great Britain

--------------------
- PDM Integration
--------------------
- Added PDM leader traits

[Faeelin]

Is a file missing? I installed the Legacy of Cromwell into the mod folder, but it doesn't show up as a possible mod. When I just installed it in the main directory, China was in Korea, and China's territory was empty.

[Seek75]

The mod folder doesn't work. You need to copy your V2 folder and put LoC into the copy.

[Faeelin]

Okay, I did that; I think I somehow overwrote China. Problem solved.

[ZomgK3tchup]

The mod folder doesn't work. You need to copy your V2 folder and put LoC into the copy.

I use JSGME for my mods; it makes a backup of your game and temporarily overwrites your files with the mod you want to use. It can be found here.

I'm surprised more people don't use it. Its a fairly useful tool and prevents me from having directories for AOC, PDM, MDS, etc.

[ZomgK3tchup]

Here's the updated version. Thanks for the feedback; most of it is based on what you guys suggested. I left the Oriental Crisis alone since I plan to merge this with PDM; it already has a setup for the Oriental Crisis, so that'll be something I'll get around to when I integrate CBs and whatnot.

I don't think there are any significant changes from the changelog I previously posted, but just in case, there's a "Readme" file attached.

For the next version, I'd like some opinions. I've considered redoing the tech tree to make the game more flavorful. Since there is an obvious correlation between free thought and innovation, I may "push" Europe ahead in technology so things like automatic weapons are researchable sooner and late-game technologies will be more devastating things like what we see in WW2 or even in the book, The Difference Engine. What are your thoughts on this? Is this too much? Should this just be your standard alternate history, or should I go for something slightly deeper, with a more industrialized world and more advanced to allow for more interesting gameplay?

[tbuddy]

Sounds like a great mod, been playing vicky 2 for ages and have always wanted a mod that took a lot of the uk colonies away
a few ideas i had,
Netherlands should more influence in SE Asia or in south Africa maybe Madagascar? or south Africa should be more developed.
is america a satalite of the uk. what about splitting the usa into smaller satallite states under uk rule with an event chain for if one of them breaks away then they all get an event to break away and fight a civil war with Britain supporting one side. I think this would be fun to play especialy as it would be a large number of small states vs small number + powerful britain.
a event chain for uk to invade or support a independant alaska would be a good way at starting war between uk and russia and its allys

[FMekajiki]

My observations/suggestions:

Lots of really convergent borders. I know this is in the spirit of the mod it still just seems weird for any alternate history with a 100+ year old point of divergence. I also know the map is a total WIP still so whatever. Major things that stand out to me are as follows though:

- Texas: Why does this exist? The events surrounding the Texan Revolution seem almost impossible to happen in this scenario. Even if they did, would it really be in 1836 just like our timeline? Probably should just remain part of New Spain.

- Panama: What's going on here? Why is it independent? Not a bad thing I just don't understand how this happened. Again, it was a very specific chain of events in our world that was completed manipulated by the USA. If there's a reason for independent Panama with those borders in this world, that's fine, I just don't see how it would happen without explanation.

- Southern Europe: Seems way too convergent to me. The chances of Sardinia-Piedmont building the way it did, along with the Papal States, various Austrian-led duchies, and then Austrian-controlled Kingdom of Lombardy-Venetia is highly unlikely IMO. Probably just an area without a lot of work yet, just thought I would throw out that maybe different Italian setups would be cool. Same goes for Serbia and Greece. I don't want to suggest for change just for change's sake, but, again, these were very specific circumstances. The British and French played very major roles in Greek independence in our world. With Britain and France so different, is this still going to happen? Maybe that should be changed, maybe not.

Orient: Same goes for the Oriental Crisis as Greece and Serbia. Seems really strange for such a different world with a radically different Ottoman Empire(the Napoleonic Wars had a huge effect on them) to have a crisis with Egypt along the same lines at the same time that we did in OTL.

These are my issues/suggestions. Overall, this is really well thought-out and I like the premise of it. I just think there may be a big butterfly net that's holding you back from exploring some really interesting possibilities.

[ZomgK3tchup]

Netherlands should more influence in SE Asia or in south Africa maybe Madagascar? or South Africa should be more developed.

I actually thought that South Africa was too developed. The reason the Boer States in our world extended so far north was because the British were driving them away from the cape proper. If you mean more developed with forts and whatnot, yes, I agree. There are places where I haven't added any forts.

is america a satalite of the uk. what about splitting the usa into smaller satallite states under uk rule with an event chain for if one of them breaks away then they all get an event to break away and fight a civil war with Britain supporting one side. I think this would be fun to play especialy as it would be a large number of small states vs small number + powerful britain.

Right now, the United States is quasi-independent similar 1900s Australia or Canada. Officially, the are the Commonwealth of North America with an independent Parliament and President.

a event chain for uk to invade or support a independant alaska would be a good way at starting war between uk and russia and its allys

Oh yes, I definitely want to play around with Anglo-Russian relations. I want to do several events that puts the US at odds with the rest of the world, particularly for control of Alaska, Greenland, Newfoundland, and the Caribbean.

- Texas: Why does this exist? The events surrounding the Texan Revolution seem almost impossible to happen in this scenario. Even if they did, would it really be in 1836 just like our timeline? Probably should just remain part of New Spain.

Texas is that awkward area that I left alone until I figured out what to do with it.

- Panama: What's going on here? Why is it independent? Not a bad thing I just don't understand how this happened. Again, it was a very specific chain of events in our world that was completed manipulated by the USA. If there's a reason for independent Panama with those borders in this world, that's fine, I just don't see how it would happen without explanation.

The plan was that Spain actually fleshed out a design for the Panama Canal and has direct control over the future construction site. Panama, whose flag is actually a Spanish one instead of Panamanian, is under separate rule from either New Spain and New Granada. I wanted to play around with the "people have been wanting to build the Panama Canal since the 1500s" idea.

- Southern Europe: Seems way too convergent to me. The chances of Sardinia-Piedmont building the way it did, along with the Papal States, various Austrian-led duchies, and then Austrian-controlled Kingdom of Lombardy-Venetia is highly unlikely IMO. Probably just an area without a lot of work yet, just thought I would throw out that maybe different Italian setups would be cool. Same goes for Serbia and Greece. I don't want to suggest for change just for change's sake, but, again, these were very specific circumstances. The British and French played very major roles in Greek independence in our world. With Britain and France so different, is this still going to happen? Maybe that should be changed, maybe not.

I considered breaking Sardiania-Piedmont into simply Piedmont and then giving Sardinia to somebody, but I didn't know who. Either Corsica or Sardinia has Catalonian POPs, so I considered giving that one to Catalonia, the other to maybe France or Spain, and then possibly Sicily to Britain or Austria.

I'm not sure how much impact Britain had on Austria's expansion in particular, but if an independent Venetia or Lombardy is justifiable then sure. But I don't want to hammer Austria too far into the ground.

I'm keeping Naples and the Papacy the same though. They've been like that for hundreds of years, and I can't see anything groundbreaking that's going to happen.

Orient: Same goes for the Oriental Crisis as Greece and Serbia. Seems really strange for such a different world with a radically different Ottoman Empire(the Napoleonic Wars had a huge effect on them) to have a crisis with Egypt along the same lines at the same time that we did in OTL.

The Ottomans are that awkward guy that is on the fringe of what makes sense to change and what doesn't. They're so far away that its difficult to justify large-scale changes, but the British did intervene in their affairs several times. Right now, the British supported the Greeks and by happenstance, Austria took Bosnia, Serbia is in Austria's sphere, and Moldavia is independent and in Poland's sphere. Crimea is also a Russian satellite. That's about as far as that region can change without drastically altering the course of a major conflict or adding a new one.

I'm open to suggestions on any of this though. My knowledge of the Ottomans and South Europe in general is somewhat limited.

I will say that the convergent is a somewhat mundane one which explains the similarities between our world and this. Unlike a divergence where the War of Spanish Succession is successful on France's behalf (for example), this one is a political change and how a certain country would then react to the rest of the world under its new regime. Most of the ripple effects are the result of direct British involvement or lack thereof or "Hey, these guys are pretty great, being free and all. Why can't we be like that?" Subsequently, places like China get absolutely no attention because they're virtually unaffected by this change (though we probably could think of something, but I'd be somewhat opposed to that.)

People actually posted here. Good. This thread was collecting dust.

On a final note, I found some critical province errors that I'm working out. Apparently, some province files need a space after the last line or the engine won't read the last character in the document. As a result, large swaths of Canada and other provinces have a liferating of 1, no trade goods, or missing buildings.

[FMekajiki]

I actually thought that South Africa was too developed. The reason the Boer States in our world extended so far north was because the British were driving them away from the cape proper. If you mean more developed with forts and whatnot, yes, I agree. There are places where I haven't added any forts.

I definitely agree with this. Expansion far from the Cape shouldn't be done until full-scale colonization of Africa begins. Like you said, the Boers trying to escape the British is the main reason it got as far north as it did historically. With continued Dutch presence, the only possible reason I can see is one power trying to cut the other one off. But there's not any valuable resources(that I know of) in that area, so it probably wouldn't be worthwhile anyway.

Right now, the United States is quasi-independent similar 1900s Australia or Canada. Officially, the are the Commonwealth of North America with an independent Parliament and President.


Oh yes, I definitely want to play around with Anglo-Russian relations. I want to do several events that puts the US at odds with the rest of the world, particularly for control of Alaska, Greenland, Newfoundland, and the Caribbean.


Texas is that awkward area that I left alone until I figured out what to do with it.

Good enough.

The plan was that Spain actually fleshed out a design for the Panama Canal and has direct control over the future construction site. Panama, whose flag is actually a Spanish one instead of Panamanian, is under separate rule from either New Spain and New Granada. I wanted to play around with the "people have been wanting to build the Panama Canal since the 1500s" idea.

Sounds like a plan to me.

I considered breaking Sardiania-Piedmont into simply Piedmont and then giving Sardinia to somebody, but I didn't know who. Either Corsica or Sardinia has Catalonian POPs, so I considered giving that one to Catalonia, the other to maybe France or Spain, and then possibly Sicily to Britain or Austria.

I'm not sure how much impact Britain had on Austria's expansion in particular, but if an independent Venetia or Lombardy is justifiable then sure. But I don't want to hammer Austria too far into the ground.

I'm keeping Naples and the Papacy the same though. They've been like that for hundreds of years, and I can't see anything groundbreaking that's going to happen.

I don't have the game pulled up right now, but I would wager it's probably Sardinia. Much of the island is STILL claimed by Catalan Nationalists. If you're looking for someone to give Sardinia to, Catalonia could definitely work. And I know the Papal States and Naples have their territory pretty much set in stone for years now, but I'm talking more along the lines of northern states. I may be wrong, but IIRC the Vienna Conference had a considerable impact on Northern Italy. Venice's fall and the transfer of Venice and Dalmatia to Austria is a direct result of Napoleonic and Vienna policies. I know less about Lombardy/Milan, but I think it was a Vienna transfer as well.

The Ottomans are that awkward guy that is on the fringe of what makes sense to change and what doesn't. They're so far away that its difficult to justify large-scale changes, but the British did intervene in their affairs several times. Right now, the British supported the Greeks and by happenstance, Austria took Bosnia, Serbia is in Austria's sphere, and Moldavia is independent and in Poland's sphere. Crimea is also a Russian satellite. That's about as far as that region can change without drastically altering the course of a major conflict or adding a new one.

I'm open to suggestions on any of this though. My knowledge of the Ottomans and South Europe in general is somewhat limited.

I definitely see your point here. It makes sense too. I just don't want to underestimate the power of the butterfly effect. At its full strength, a random policy Cromwell makes could eventually lead to Muhammad Ali never being born. That said, taking the butterfly effect to its full extent is more within the realm of the Divergences mod. Leaving it more secure here is probably better.

I will say that the convergent is a somewhat mundane one which explains the similarities between our world and this. Unlike a divergence where the War of Spanish Succession is successful on France's behalf (for example), this one is a political change and how a certain country would then react to the rest of the world under its new regime. Most of the ripple effects are the result of direct British involvement or lack thereof or "Hey, these guys are pretty great, being free and all. Why can't we be like that?" Subsequently, places like China get absolutely no attention because they're virtually unaffected by this change (though we probably could think of something, but I'd be somewhat opposed to that.)

People actually posted here. Good. This thread was collecting dust.

Makes sense to me.

On a final note, I found some critical province errors that I'm working out. Apparently, some province files need a space after the last line or the engine won't read the last character in the document. As a result, large swaths of Canada and other provinces have a liferating of 1, no trade goods, or missing buildings.

I thought that was a reported bug. It may not have ever been reported. Might be worth reporting while you're at it :P

[ZomgK3tchup]

I don't have the game pulled up right now, but I would wager it's probably Sardinia. Much of the island is STILL claimed by Catalan Nationalists. If you're looking for someone to give Sardinia to, Catalonia could definitely work. And I know the Papal States and Naples have their territory pretty much set in stone for years now, but I'm talking more along the lines of northern states. I may be wrong, but IIRC the Vienna Conference had a considerable impact on Northern Italy. Venice's fall and the transfer of Venice and Dalmatia to Austria is a direct result of Napoleonic and Vienna policies. I know less about Lombardy/Milan, but I think it was a Vienna transfer as well.

Lombardy was under Austrian rule.

History says that I should turn Sardinia-Piedmont into simply Piedmont, make Genoa independent, give Corsica to Genoa, give Sardinia to Catalonia, and then fiddle with Austria and Venice. I may make Venice an Austrian satellite considering its immense interest in Venice. I don't know what I'll do about Lombardy though. If Venice is an Austrian satellite, then I might just leave it alone.

Yeah, the butterfly effect is a beautiful thing. I'll try to avoid using names in this mod as much as possible since I doubt any notable monarchs even exist if they weren't born before or around the divergence point. For example, Corsica remaining Genoan means that Napoleon might not ever exist. Even if he did, it would require some very specific things; if he was conceived even an hour later, he might end up an entirely different person. But for argument's sake, I'll assume that a Napoleon-like character came to power in France and that someone like Muhammad Ali exists in Egypt.

[ZomgK3tchup]

Here's the updated version. I changed Sardinia-Piedmont to Savoy, created an independent Genoa, transferred Corsica to Genoa, gave Sardinia to Catalonia, and left Venice alone. Meanwhile, I significantly decolonized South Africa and redrew Indochina to match PDM borders.

Here's the changelog for more information; its also included in the download and replaces the vanilla one.

##############################
#     Legacy of Cromwell     #
##############################

----------------------------------------
- VERSION 0.2
----------------------------------------
- Added Latin America to Spain's sphere
- Created alliances between Latin America and Spain
- Changed Portugal-Brazil's map color
- Fixed buggy South American provinces
- Fixed error with Etorofu appearing twice in files
- Removed Russian core from Etorofu
- Added Russian core to Dudinka
- Removed Russian cores from Polish Budjak, Cherson, Orsha, and Zhitomir
- Removed Californian core on Sumba and correcly added Balian core
- Added Level 2 forts to Luxembourg and Gibraltar
- Fixed glitchy province files
- Added Genoa as a playable nation
- Added Genoa to Spain's sphere
- Changed Sardinia-Piedmont to Savoy
- Reduced Savoy's prestige to 5
- Gave Sardinia to Catalonia
- Added naval bases to Cape Town and Port Elizabeth
- Added forts to Paris, Warsaw, and Madrid
- Added naval bases to Konigsberg and Oldenburg
- Added fort and naval base to Odessa
- Returned Savannakhet to Siam
- Gave Salavan and Pakche to Siam
- Decolonized Syasir, Ziryanka, and Honuu
- Fixed ruling parties for Ashanti, Geledi, Shewa, and Majeerteen
- Added Lan Na as a playable nation
- Decolonized Oranje and Transvaal; liferatings set at 25
- Decolonized Springbok, Calvinia, and De Aar; liferatings set at 15
- Decolonized Quibala; restored to its vanilla state
- Returned Sofianova to China
- Fixed a province error that incorrectly made Ontario into a colony

As always, I'm looking for feedback/suggestions for the map. I want to upload a new world map and map of Europe for the first post, but Photobucket keeps resizing my images. How do I get a full-sized one?

Click here for the latest download!

[Euphoriaq]

I'm having problems downloading this. I'm not the most tech savvy person so i'm not to sure how to describe this. I tried overwriting V2 but after its completed, the original 1.4 beta is all that shows up.