My wish came true! Great!
"'The beginning of evil is heedlessness."
-Abba Poemen, Apophthegmata Patrum
¿What the f...?
Magna Mundi cancelled! Can't stop laughing!
Edit: I suddenly became uncertain, though. Counties that are not a part of a duchy should also have their shield on the map. Or should they?
Last edited by Maginor; 06-12-2011 at 20:25.
Am I the only one who likes red Byzantium? Even if purple is the regal colour, red feels way more Roman to me.
Honestly, I think I really preferred the previous versions of the map. I'm a bit color blind and so I'm not a big fan of using dull, washed out colors in an interface that needs to efficiently convey information. Will there be a way to mod the colors brighter?
Looks much better this way than as solid blocks.
Thinking of red as the Roman colour is understandable given that it's the Hollywood colour for all their armies and so forth (and if you're showing classical Rome, it'll be with armies hanging around, almost inevitably. They used different colours depending on the legion), but it isn't more than speculation on what'd look "cool", where-as Purple stretches back to pre-Republican kings of Rome (thus the taboo during the republic, and given the taboo for that using red for the Republic is more sensible).
Picking something purely because "it looks nice" to some over a clearly more historical alternative for the Empire (with heirs literally "Born into the Purple") is in the same vein as Scottish kilts and horned Vikings but on a much more subtle and obscure scale.
(Edit) And on another point regarding the subject: Why would you want it to be red when almost all of Eastern Europe is red? It already needs variety there.
Last edited by Nuril; 06-12-2011 at 20:49.
I'm seeing lots of colours here, but purple isn't one of them, you know what I mean? And I think if you look at the history of prominent Roman flags you'll see lots of red too.
Those are also the Crest and Motto specific to the Palaiologos dynasty that come into play 60 years after the Fourth Crusade. At the start we're still thirty years away from the first one.
Where's the purple flags?
The Wiki says
So I guess the colour name Byzantium was born on the traditional connotation between the Empire and somehow purple. Wiki says nothing about the relation between the Byzantine Empire and the colour (112, 41, 99)(RGB) in the middle ages.The first recorded use of byzantium as a color name in English was in 1926(underlined by the poster)
About the red Easteuropean countries, many (even if not ALL) countries in that region use red in their flags. I guess that's why.
By the way, I really like the new colours! They look more elegant, and like the map in a historical atlas.
Last edited by chatnoir17; 06-12-2011 at 21:20.
Nova Monumenta Iaponiae Historica: A Sengoku Mod for CK2 (alpha 0.0.8)
Historical 1493 and 1534 scenarios, original portraits, family trees between the 6th and 16th century etc. You can check alpha version video in ParadoxExtra!
Direct Link to our Steam Workshop page.
Pax Sinica (East Asia Mod for EU4) Bella Iaponica (Japan Mod for EU4, will be updated with AoW)
If you're throwing around Standards then why not make it Blue?
Because your Hollywood notion won't fit that? It's almost as sensible.
Apart from this discussion, what is your opinion on making it red when almost all of Eastern Europe already is?
Gold, Blue, Red, but not purple. Perhaps I haven't been clear. I want you to show me a purple flag, but you seem to be resistant and instead talk about Hollywood, when I'm posting links to historical flags. Now to be perfectly clear, please post some official and historical purple flags of the Byzantine state for me. Thank you.Early Byzantine Empire flags had nothing to do with the two-headed byzantine eagle. Early Standards (as they are displayed in the Cretan Naval Museum in Chania), depicted either the Cross with four B-shaped firesteels Each letter B stands for Vassileus Vassileon Vassilevon Vassilevonton (King of Kings ruling over Kings) or the Greek abbreviation (Christogramma in Greek) for Christ (Christos/XPICTOC in medieval Greek) on red, yellow or blue field
And the reason for bringing up cultural depictions of Rome is because you're lobbying for a Red Empire and NOT a Blue one. That shows a bias to what people happen to show in the movies and tv-shows, which is why I asked if you'd support that as a more legitimate colour than Imperial Purple, given your "Military Standards"-argument.
Last edited by Nuril; 06-12-2011 at 21:26.
And red has its precedents too. Byzantine standards (labara) were supposedly usually red or red and blue, and the tetragrammic imperial banner is mainly red. So red seems like an equally historically appropriate choice., IMO
You have conceded that as a state colour, purple can't be found. It can be found as the personal pride colour of the Emperor, but nothing in regard to the state. Unfortunately, the Emperor doesn't seem to get colour codes, only the realm of Byzantium does in this case. So I guess, using your argument that purple as a Byzantine colour does not exist, purple would be a most inappropriate colour for Byzantium. Thank you for your assistance. I'm more convinced than I was before, that red is the best colour here.
How is that a bias? If you look at all of the flags I posted, there's clearly more red than blue throughout Byzantine history. This argument is based on the always wrong notion that these games are historical simulators and not video games, yes? Look at the screenshots. What flag did the developers give to the Byzantines?And the reason for bringing up cultural depictions of Rome is because you're lobbying for a Red Empire and NOT a Blue one. That shows a bias to what people happen to show in the movies and tv-shows, which is why I asked if you'd support that as a more legitimate colour than Imperial Purple, given your "Military Standards"-argument.
Last edited by Jia Xu; 06-12-2011 at 21:35.