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Thread: Magna Mundi Developer Diary 29 - Country Traditions

  1. #21
    Husky Comrade Chaos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1alexey View Post
    If anything too much religions zeal should slow country down in natural sciences quite strongly. After all whom are they to claim that earth is revolving around sun when the holy book says otherwise.
    Guess where the Church was strongly entrenched.

    Guess where the Renaissance happened.

  2. #22
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    The name "Moral economy" strikes me as odd as it seems to imply moral superiority of non-market based economy, which is a very modern (not to mention very questionable) idea. One could consider this an anachronism.

    And I've got to admit that there does not seem to be many ideas in State and Business Traditions that would support the Republican Ideas over the non-republican ones, so this choice of finishing move seems a bit odd, I'd say not necessarily a natural consequence of it's supposed causes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Comrade Chaos View Post
    Guess where the Church was strongly entrenched.

    Guess where the Renaissance happened.
    Contrary to popular belief I'd say that Renaissance had little to do with religion whatsover except that religion was a major theme in arts.
    Last edited by Me_; 27-11-2011 at 07:07.
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  3. #23
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    For MMtG, will reneging the past have more focused consequences than in MMtM? For example, if one gets rid of elite regiments, will most of the penalties be to the military? If one gets rid of pioneers, will most of the penalties be to colonization?

    In the mod, it always felt strange that the penalties and negative modifiers had nothing to do with the idea/tradition that was scrapped.
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  4. #24
    Colonel Archaalen's Avatar
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    What does the "Our Country is Open" bar on the first screenshot mean? Is that a reference to the country's level of openness to new ideas/tech, or is that for countries that are "closed" to the outside world like Japan?
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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Archaalen View Post
    What does the "Our Country is Open" bar on the first screenshot mean? Is that a reference to the country's level of openness to new ideas/tech, or is that for countries that are "closed" to the outside world like Japan?
    It was described in Dev Diary #12 - Knowledge, only the levels of modernization have been renamed to better reflect their real meaning. "Open" was formerly called "Modern".

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  6. #26
    Doesn't this mean that Religious Dogmatism is required for Scientific Revolution? O-o

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Me_ View Post
    The name "Moral economy" strikes me as odd as it seems to imply moral superiority of non-market based economy, which is a very modern (not to mention very questionable) idea. One could consider this an anachronism.
    Surely the idea of a market economy being morally superior is the more modern one? Prior to Adam Smith, general consensus was that you should keep trade out of the hands of your enemies, subsidise failing industry, grant privileges to guilds to avoid destabilising competition, etc. A ruler who took hard ‘market’ choices and let native businessmen starve would have been seen as immoral. If anything, the term “Market Economy” is the greater anachronism.

    I agree that the current terms are slightly problematic, but I can’t think of any better alternatives. Whilst ‘Mercantilism’ or ‘Protectionism’ as counterparts to ‘Free Market’ might be more recognisable to modern eyes, as economic theories they don’t really apply to the whole game period. “Moral Economy” at least gives an idea of the ad-hoc economic tinkering that most governments did to try and influence competition for its own citizens’ benefit; there was no real guiding theory beyond 'doing what's best'.
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  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Weijun View Post
    For MMtG, will reneging the past have more focused consequences than in MMtM? For example, if one gets rid of elite regiments, will most of the penalties be to the military? If one gets rid of pioneers, will most of the penalties be to colonization?

    In the mod, it always felt strange that the penalties and negative modifiers had nothing to do with the idea/tradition that was scrapped.
    To add to this, will the new idea have any influence on the effects?

    Going from any of these:

    - Mandatory Religious Services
    - Religious Dogmatism
    - Divine Dominance


    to

    - Humanist Tolerance
    - Ecumenism


    Should cause a larger destabilization than going to

    - Artistic Patronage

    I would think.

    One is merely reneging an idea, the others are turning them on their head. The clergy would be pretty angry if you stopped the mandatory religious services, but if you then also said that everyone was free to practice their religion as they saw fit they would be incensed. Having had one of those religious ideas would probably also mean that the clergy was pretty powerful, so any instability would likely come from them.

    I hope like Weijun wrote, that the instability will be tied to the idea much more than it was in the mod, where I would have to constantly feed money to a faction that had very little to do with the ideas I had changed. Did you make the clergy less powerful/snub them in some way? Then the clergy will begin to oppose you, influencing relations with same religion neighbors, riling up the peasants and perhaps contacting the pope if you're catholic. Perhaps some other faction didn't like you in the first place, so they join the clergy in their mischief, causing you even more troubles.

    Such a system would give you an incentive to weaken the faction that is related to the Tradition you want to abolish, while improving your relations with other factions. That also fits with the idea of Traditions being something that grows over time, and in this case grows weaker until they're replaced by something else. If I've spend the last 50 years undermining the power of the Church I don't think it makes much sense for there to be as huge an uproar over me making it official, as if I just decided to confront the Church at it's strongest.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arizael View Post
    Ubik: Are there any situations in the game which can take out on of our tradition, bypassing (or preferably affecting) the "reneging process"?
    edit: Also - the prerequisities to the specialized traditions are not necessarily all traditions from the same group? I can't imagine Religious dogmatism leading to Scientific revolution.
    Special occasions arise that open a few of the traditions or take them away or give a new one.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archaalen View Post
    What does the "Our Country is Open" bar on the first screenshot mean? Is that a reference to the country's level of openness to new ideas/tech, or is that for countries that are "closed" to the outside world like Japan?
    It's the level of modernization of the country. In that case, its the second best out of four.
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  11. #31
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    Are there any traditions which upon taking prohibit the taking of other traditions so long as they are in place? If for example they conflict. Also would this be true for the whole religion vs culture ideas? (Even though there are quite convincing ideas regarding the connection between religion and science, I have a feeling like it actually means "being a not particularly religious country makes scientific discoveries less likely, which I don't seem to recall an example of)

    Also have to say I love the look of the game. I guess this is still the unupgraded map?
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  12. #32
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    Noooooooooooooooooooooo! Bill of Rights has moved categories?! my path of scientific revolution, my whole strategy - ruined . What country traditions does Sweden start with now?
    Last edited by Swedish Steel!; 27-11-2011 at 18:34.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swedish Steel! View Post
    Noooooooooooooooooooooo! Bill of Rights has moved categories?! my path of scientific revolution, my whole strategy - ruined . What country traditions does Sweden start with now?
    Exactly when did the Bill of rights lead to Scientific revolution?

  14. #34
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    It was in the mod

  15. #35
    Nooo, it led to LEF...

  16. #36
    Artificer Urza's Avatar
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    Titillating titles, but could you also tell us what are the effects of some of the NTs? Preferably of the ones new or radically different from the NIs of the mod.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willum View Post
    Nooo, it led to LEF...
    But... oh. My bad. It's that shipwright idea that leads to scientific revolution. I'll go hang my head in shame

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urza View Post
    Titillating titles, but could you also tell us what are the effects of some of the NTs? Preferably of the ones new or radically different from the NIs of the mod.
    Here goes two:


    Code:
    seafaring_tradition = {
    
    	trigger = {
    		NOT = { has_country_modifier = ni_changed }
    		num_of_coastals = 1
    	}
    
    
    	naval_forcelimit_modifier = 0.50
    	naval_morale = 0.30
    	prestige_from_naval = 0.05
    	global_admiral_quality = 0.75
    	global_trade_income_modifier = 0.05
    	global_tariffs = 0.05
    	category = naval
    }
    
    
    trained_regiments = {
    
    	trigger = {
    		NOT = { has_country_modifier = ni_changed }
    	}
    
    	global_general_quality = 1 
    	land_morale = 0.50
    	discipline = 0.10
    	war_exhaustion = -0.01
    	max_war_exhaustion = -0.5
    	category = army
    	
    }
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  19. #39
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    Two questions:

    The global_general_quality... Does that mean that with that tradition, we wil have (in average) better generals, right?

    Can we add all the Country Traditions that we want, or we are limited to these that you have put in the game, and we ony can change the effects?

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clophiroth View Post
    Two questions:

    The global_general_quality... Does that mean that with that tradition, we wil have (in average) better generals, right?
    Yes.

    It will increase the FI field in the table below.





    Can we add all the Country Traditions that we want, or we are limited to these that you have put in the game, and we ony can change the effects?
    Yes, you can add new families of ideas, new ideas, etc.
    == MAGNA MUNDI ==

    PAY GOLD,
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    INSTILL FEAR,
    PROMISE HOPE


    HISTORY IS YOURS!

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