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Thread: Magna Mundi Developer Diary 29 - Country Traditions

  1. #1
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    Magna Mundi Developer Diary 29 - Country Traditions

    Country Traditions


    In Magna Mundi Country Traditions can be seen as the cornerstones of a country interests and influences. They act as powerful and influent modifiers that give a particular flavor to each country and help the player customize it to his own play style. There are 40 different traditions available, and given some special limitations, they can be combined however you desire, as long as your knowledge level supports the addition of new traditions.





    Tradition Categories

    There are five categories of traditions

    - Land,
    - Colonial
    - Naval
    - State
    - Culture/Religion


    Each category has a specialized tradition that is even more powerful and that can only be attained if 4 Traditions from the same category have been previously picked. Whether sacrificing general benefits for specialized benefits is worth it will depend on the circumstances and goals you have during each game.



    Changing Country Traditions Previously picked


    In Magna Mundi, Country Traditions are not a disposable tool to be swapped at the whims of the player and without serious consequences. This means that swapping country traditions will cause serious problems in the country, while your entire social structure is trying to adapt to a new paradigm and a shift in ethos. The instability will probably last more than a decade, approaching two in many cases and its consequences range from a continual loss of stability, to several side effects, which go from lower merchant effectiveness to a poor disposition to fight, or many others. At worst, it may lead to a civil war.
    With such a radical decision, it must be noted the Administrative skill of the ruler will greatly influence the whole endeavor. So, the players are well advised to wait for an administrative genius before changing a Country Tradition. Consequences can be minimized this way.
    To mitigate these consequences, a player may elect to spend gold or favours through all the social classes of the country in a wide number of situations. This increases the probabilities of assimilation quicker and softens the consequences of such radical action.
    Please understand that throwing all the money in the world at the problem and having a great administrative ruler does not necessarily prevent the more unpalatable consequences of changing a Country Tradition. But It definitely improves your chances. Conversely, swapping a Country Tradition while an halfwit is in charge of the country does not guarantee grave consequences. The potential for disaster is however, much bigger…





    List of Traditions
    (underlined the Specialized Tradition)



    Land Traditions

    - Professional Leadership
    - Engineer Companies
    - Expanded Companies
    - Trained Regiments
    - Elite Regiments
    - Conscription
    - Superior Organization
    - Army Supremacy



    Naval Traditions

    - Master Shipbuilding
    - Seafaring Tradition
    - Naval Fighting Instruction
    - Modular Shipbuilding
    - Commerce Raiders
    - Experienced Mariners
    - Oceanic Navigation
    - Naval Supremacy



    Colonial Traditions

    - Fortune Seekers
    - Pioneers
    - Colonial Establishment
    - Dedicated Colonial Administration
    - Trade Acumen
    - Daring Traders
    - Guild Privileges
    - Mass Exploration and Colonization



    State and Business Traditions

    - Bill of Rights
    - Civil Service
    - Cabinet
    - Espionage
    - Central Bank
    - Internal Security
    - National Trade Policy
    - Republican Ideals



    Culture Traditions

    - Mandatory Religious Services
    - Religious Dogmatism
    - Divine Dominance
    - Humanist Tolerance
    - Artistic Patronage
    - Ecumenism
    - Revolutionary Ideals
    - Scientific Revolution
    == MAGNA MUNDI ==

    PAY GOLD,
    SHED BLOOD,
    INSTILL FEAR,
    PROMISE HOPE


    HISTORY IS YOURS!

  2. #2
    Sounds very similar to the EU3 idea system, but I guess it was a solid system to begin with.
    What I do wonder is about the extend of the actual effects of traditions. Could you give some examples?
    Does it have consequences beyond the direct effects?

  3. #3
    Captain Arizael's Avatar

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    So the main difference from the mod is, that there won't be any "elite" class traditions (formely pickable at 32 respective tech level, eg. Ecumenism)?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romtos View Post
    Sounds very similar to the EU3 idea system, but I guess it was a solid system to begin with.
    What I do wonder is about the extend of the actual effects of traditions. Could you give some examples?
    Does it have consequences beyond the direct effects?
    Sure. It's a system not very different from what we presented in the mod.

    Traditions act as triggers or modifiers in a high number of events, they interact with most if not all of the event pools, the number of land/naval traditions define the maximum capacity of each army/navy, number of trade traditions influence if you can attempt to monopolize CoTs... and much more for sure.
    == MAGNA MUNDI ==

    PAY GOLD,
    SHED BLOOD,
    INSTILL FEAR,
    PROMISE HOPE


    HISTORY IS YOURS!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arizael View Post
    So the main difference from the mod is, that there won't be any "elite" class traditions (formely pickable at 32 respective tech level, eg. Ecumenism)?
    Yes, that level has been taken out. Notice some traditions cannot be automatically picked and others are self exclusive. As I told above there are some more important influences of traditions on trade, land and naval warfare (It's very different if each of your armies can only field a maximum of 5 regiments or 20, for instance).
    == MAGNA MUNDI ==

    PAY GOLD,
    SHED BLOOD,
    INSTILL FEAR,
    PROMISE HOPE


    HISTORY IS YOURS!

  6. #6
    Captain Deathknight15's Avatar
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    How large will be the advantage of a specialized nation be over a generalized one? How could a small, but heavily focused tradition, country expect to fare against a more powerful nation in a conflict in the small, focused tradition country's favor? (i.e. a small country completely invested in land traditions versus a major power)

    In fact, how specialized can most countries afford to be?

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    Captain Arizael's Avatar

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    Deathknight: As far as I can remember from the mod - if you pick all land tradition, you will be unbeatable king of the battlefield - but your economy will sux, you wont be able to win single naval battle and when you conguer few provinces your AE will kill you

    Ubik: Are there any situations in the game which can take out on of our tradition, bypassing (or preferably affecting) the "reneging process"?
    edit: Also - the prerequisities to the specialized traditions are not necessarily all traditions from the same group? I can't imagine Religious dogmatism leading to Scientific revolution.
    Last edited by Arizael; 27-11-2011 at 00:11.

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    Captain Deathknight15's Avatar
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    Maybe a better question, how much does one tradition, in general, affect a country's strengths? (I think I remember reading that none of the traditions will have significant negative modifiers, is that correct?)

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    BL-logic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathknight15 View Post
    Maybe a better question, how much does one tradition, in general, affect a country's strengths? (I think I remember reading that none of the traditions will have significant negative modifiers, is that correct?)
    No negative modifiers actualy. The choice is: which bonus do you really want? Knowing that once you pick them, you'll likely stick with them for the rest of the game. And it can greatly affect a country's strenghts. Being able to field more armies, more fleets, being able to monopolize a CoT, those are all very significant avantages. Plus the direct bonus, more income, better troops, more colonists, more stability, more prestige etc.
    We're still flying

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    Civil Service needs a nerf!!!

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    Ok then. Now, If you select a tradition, and then a few months later you realize, Oh No! I just picked the exact wrong tradition for this situation!. Is it possible to then change it with reduced calamity?

    I think in the mod you could have a tradition for a month and if you tried to change it you might start a civil war. (I might be wrong).

    I mean sure, supporters of the tradition will probably be outraged at the false hope for their vision of the country, but it doesn't exactly have any deep roots in the country's tradition (heh, pun) yet, right?

  12. #12
    BL-logic
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    In that case, you quit and reload!

    I can't think of any situation caused by game the circumstances where you suddently realize you should pick a different tradition. You can be in a war and think "I should have picked a land tradition instead of this civil service rubish", or you can take a stability hit and your country is chaotic and you think you should have picked a cultural tradition... but the thruth is, those traditions wouldn't save you in the short run. They would help of course, but not revert the situation entirely. So you always pick traditions for the long run.

    About a tradition being picked and immediately becoming immovable. I think it would be pointless to give you one month to try out different traditions. Imagine it as this, when you pick a tradition, you are simply recognizing what your country has become over the last 30 years. You are not telling them "Congratulations! You are all now experienced mariners!" no, you are telling them "Look at yourselves! I'm so proud! After decades of travelling around the world in tiny boats you have finnaly become experienced mariners!" If you change your mind later, and decide to turn them all into bureaucrats instead, expect some adaptation difficulties.
    We're still flying

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arizael View Post
    Ubik: Are there any situations in the game which can take out on of our tradition, bypassing (or preferably affecting) the "reneging process"?
    I believe that will be the case, there were instances in the mod where this was possible. Especially when Arbus wrote that picking a tradition simulates a crowning event of a long-term social change. If you consistently steer away from religiousness and undermine the position of clergy, then got hit by a revolution making you a Revolutionary republic, you sure as hell should have some chance of being hit by an event purging your country of religious Traditions.

  14. #14
    So:
    - Mandatory Religious Services+Religious Dogmatism+Divine Dominance+Artistic Patronage give you Scientific Revolution? that is quite interesting thinking.
    - Cabinet+Espionage+Central Bank+Internal Security lead you to Republican Ideals? I would estimate dictatorship, but...

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1alexey View Post
    So:
    - Mandatory Religious Services+Religious Dogmatism+Divine Dominance+Artistic Patronage give you Scientific Revolution? that is quite interesting thinking.
    Perhaps someone better versed in history could tell me I'm wrong, but wasn't part of the early reason of pursuing mathematical sciences was to understand what 'god' left for mere mortals to understand? At this point science and religion were not foes.
    Even an ignorant, paranoid, cowardly, ugly, corrupt, unsociable, aristocratic thug can conquer large parts of the world, kill thousands of people and be celebrated as the saviour of the Republic.

  16. #16
    Without religious dogmatism, what would the scientific revolution be revolting against ?

    I think it is quite "reasonable".

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by orwell View Post
    Perhaps someone better versed in history could tell me I'm wrong, but wasn't part of the early reason of pursuing mathematical sciences was to understand what 'god' left for mere mortals to understand? At this point science and religion were not foes.
    Well mathematics is a really bad choice since it is not connected to religion in any kind so why would they even bother? It is not like you need calculus to count the apostols, or something.
    Now Physic, Astronomy, Biology, Chemistry, had a little bit of problems with church. Guess why...

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by yak View Post
    Without religious dogmatism, what would the scientific revolution be revolting against ?

    I think it is quite "reasonable".
    revolution!=revolt, plus scientists are not the kind of people to go-fight.

    Generally speaking a discovery of, say, oxygen and combustion can a be revolutionary, but that doesn`t require burning churches/heretics/castles/cities to find out.

    and no i don`t get jokes.

    If anything too much religions zeal should slow country down in natural sciences quite strongly. After all whom are they to claim that earth is revolving around sun when the holy book says otherwise.

  19. #19
    Very interesting stuff you got there!

  20. #20
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    Religious zeal should slow down research in the Vicky time period, and certainly during the later stages of the game. However, much science did come by way of the church during the game's period.
    Isaac Newton wrote more about the Christian god than about gravity, Gutenberg's first book was the Christian Bible (he wanted to cheaply produce really fancy bibles for rich people), Galileo was sponsored by Pope Urban VII, and so on.

    Academia was extremely church-oriented in most societies during this period.

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