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Thread: Developer Diary 20 – The Mongols

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    Part Time Game Designer King's Avatar
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    Developer Diary 20 – The Mongols

    is the Year of our Lord Twelve hundred and Fifteen, and rumours have reached Christendom that a new Khagan has united the tribes of the steppes. This event is the first clue that the Mongols are coming. Soon after, the first invasion wave hits as the Ilkhanate Horde arrives. The horde arrives with many thousands of blood crazed horse warriors (exact number subject to change). These regiments form the shock force of the Mongol invasion. Some time after 1224, the second wave hits, further to the North and again with a huge force of shock regiments, the Golden Horde comes into play.

    These events, though very likely, are not guaranteed to happen; there is a death date after which the Mongols will not arrive. So, on average this is what will happen, but in some games only one horde will arrive and there is a small chance that neither horde will arrive.

    To help the Mongols on their way to mayhem they get a special invasion casus bellum. None of this pussyfooting around for a single duchy, Mongol Khans will settle for nothing less than everything. So the Mongols find it far easier to conquer than anyone else. Having the Mongols as a neighbour is designed to be an interesting experience.

    So the Mongols have arrived and they have their shock troops. These troops do not reinforce but also do not suffer attrition. The only way to rob the Mongols of their power is to fight them. You need to essentially feed troops into the meat grinder to weaken the core of the Mongol horde power. Even better, you get someone else to do the fighting for you. Either way, only once those regiments are sufficiently weakened will the Mongols start to function like an ordinary country.

    So there we have it. The Mongols are designed to add an interesting late game experience, especially if you happen to be at the Eastern edge of the Map...

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    This sounds interesting thanks for the dev diary.

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    Over 9000! ssj18vegeta's Avatar
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    Thanks for the awesome DD! Looking forward to seeing the Mongols at the gates of Paris.


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    Quote Originally Posted by KING
    function like an ordinary country.
    I thought there were no countries in this game?

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    Colonel eliphas8's Avatar
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    How will the Timurids work? will it just be the same way except they show up and destroy persia? Or will there be no simulation for that.

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    A screenshot of the map 25 years later could be nice, to see how much impact they make. Interesting way to handle the mongols with the original horde troops not suffering from attrition, neither reinforcing. Should provide the realistic thing, a huge start force and then slowly declining and depending on how much land they managed to grab, eventually loose their foothold.

    Will the bonus of having mongol culture prevail? Hope not. Will their invasion work like Holy War where they take everything or will it be like the Invasion War where some goes direct to the Khanate and the Princes wise enough to surrender, becomes vassals? Will the Hordes work like Empires or Kingdoms?

    Quote Originally Posted by eliphas8 View Post
    How will the Timurids work? will it just be the same way except they show up and destroy persia? Or will there be no simulation for that.
    The Timurids originated in an area that is part of the map already. Could be fun with a special mechanism for them as well, but not realistic really.
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    Part Time Game Designer King's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eliphas8 View Post
    How will the Timurids work? will it just be the same way except they show up and destroy persia? Or will there be no simulation for that.
    As things stand at the moment, not at all. It is on our list of things to do.
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  8. #8
    I think one of the developers mentioned in a previous diary that Mongols get horse archers and that the troops you can raise are based on the culture of the province. Do Mongols have provinces in central Asia somewhere that are Mongol from which they can get horse archers or do they assimilate some provinces when they arrive in Persia, or what?

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    Part Time Game Designer King's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jia Xu View Post
    I think one of the developers mentioned in a previous diary that Mongols get horse archers and that the troops you can raise are based on the culture of the province. Do Mongols have provinces in central Asia somewhere that are Mongol from which they can get horse archers or do they assimilate some provinces when they arrive in Persia, or what?
    The horde units are not tied to provinces and have a load of horse archers.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by King View Post
    The horde units are not tied to provinces and have a load of horse archers.
    Thank you for answering my question. I understand now. So is there no way for the player to get some provinces that will produce horse archers then?

  11. #11
    Part Time Game Designer King's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jia Xu View Post
    Thank you for answering my question. I understand now. So is there no way for the player to get some provinces that will produce horse archers then?
    No, provinces can flip culture and Turks can give you horse archers too.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by King View Post
    No, provinces can flip culture and Turks can give you horse archers too.
    Oh, very nice. Yeah, I think I understand that. The Turks are from the same Altaic lineage, right? I guess it makes sense that they're like the Mongols. Thanks again.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by ssj18vegeta View Post
    Thanks for the awesome DD! Looking forward to seeing the Mongols at the gates of Paris.


    And uuuhmmm



    I thought there were no countries in this game?
    I've always believed that there are countries, you just don't play them.

  14. #14
    Part Time Game Designer King's Avatar
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    I think we are all running off on a tangent here. I used country only in the sense of a feudal entity.
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  15. #15
    On Probation thrashing mad's Avatar

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    Nice DD - I like that there's possibility of Mongol invasion not happening, or happening with varying power - gameplay experience would benefit from this uncertainty, and it's more realistic alternate history wise.

    Still, a lot of questions are not answered. For example would there be mechanism preventing mongols from annexing large ammounts of non-steppe land (historically they sticked to Pontic Steppes, simply replacing Cumans, and treating other conquests as tributary states)? It would be silly to have nomadic, horse-heavy Mongols in Finland or Alpes IMO.

  16. #16
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    Is it possible to submit to the Mongols? If that is possible it should mean that you should pay heavy tributes (about 75% of your income) to the Mongols.

  17. #17
    Can new hordes be modded in, starting in other locations? It could be interesting to perhaps use these mechanisms to simulate the Almoravids and / or the Almohads in the North of Africa / Iberia region.
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    Field Marshal yourworstnightm's Avatar
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    Mongols demanding tribute in exchange of not attacking would be a good addition. They tended to do that. Also they vassalized a lot of Russian princes, so giving them a option to demand vassalation would make sense. And Horse Archers should really have penalties for fighting in forest and mountain terrain.
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    Quote Originally Posted by King View Post
    No, provinces can flip culture and Turks can give you horse archers too.
    Only the Turks? The Byzantines created a very capable force of horse archers themselves too, after the Mongols showed their potential. While not born in the saddle like the Mongols, they were highly trained and well equipped and played a major role in Justinian's reconquest of Italy. See Edward Luttwak's Grand Strategy of the Byzantine Empire
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    On Probation thrashing mad's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grubnessul View Post
    Only the Turks? The Byzantines created a very capable force of horse archers themselves too, after the Mongols showed their potential. While not born in the saddle like the Mongols, they were highly trained and well equipped and played a major role in Justinian's reconquest of Italy. See Edward Luttwak's Grand Strategy of the Byzantine Empire
    Russian noble cavalry used bows as well (into 17th century), but I think that CK2 'horse archer' units are abstracted representation of nomadic/eastern light cavalry to differentiate these armies from Christian ones.

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